Our ReVolt Pub

Hi, I'm Iko from the ARM team.
Many of you maybe will remember this track:

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

I started this some years ago...
I was very busy and I had to delay this project a lot, but now I'm going to finish it and release it soon.
The graphics are done and now only the MiG part is missing.

I optimized the graphics and now the framerate should be a lot better, also, I fixed some collision glitches on the bridges, and I adjusted a couple of other things.
I used animated textures for waterfalls and sunflowers, with the help of W_Console (tool).

The track has still some small issues (some slopes are too much angled and Phat Slug in Junior RC mode has an hard time at going over them) but I doubt I will modify the geometry of the track any futher, so it will remain like this.

To avoid confusion, I want to specify that this version has nothing to do with the other version that was released by SebR; this is the official one.
I think I gave SebR the authorization to publish it but I can't remember; anyway that was just a temporary version until I managed to finish this one.

In fact i found your track as a wip on Re-Volt XTG, and only qwickly made it raceable for fun (and for me) on XTG...
It was your track and it still be yours


If you need help for some issues PM me

Can I suggest the use of Farce Fields to help rectify the slope angle Phat Slug issue. ?

sebr @ 8 Jul 2016, 03:00 PM wrote:In fact i found your track as a wip on Re-Volt XTG, and only qwickly made it  raceable for fun (and for me) on XTG...
It was your track and it still be yours 


If you need help for some issues PM me

I don't know who uploaded it on Re Volt XTG, I only uploaded it on the download section of ARM...
Though, I have no problems with that, I kinda released the WIP version just because of that, so that people can try it, because I knew that I wouldn't have been able to finish it in a short time.

Anyway, I just wanted to specify that they are two completely different and unrelated builds of the track (I have not worked on your version, while you have not worked on this version), but I'm completely fine with what you have done, I said that just to avoid confusion.

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in the meanwhile, I adjusted the sounds and I made the loading screen:



It's a parody of Sonic 06's infamous loading screen

Can I suggest the use of Farce Fields to help rectify the slope angle Phat Slug issue. ?

I thought about this too, and someone else already suggested this too, but I would prefer to use the regular physics of Re-Volt only for this track (except for water and bumpers obviously).
Phat Slug can do a full lap in both regular and reversed mode, but I fear that the CPU won't be able to do it... I'll do my best with the AI line, let's see if it works, and if it doesn't, I think it's not much important, who's going to use Phat Slug in Junior RC mode anyway?

Another big problem that can't be solved, is that when I modeled the track, I was scared about the solid polygons limit, and I modeled it as low poly as possible. At the end, I used 50% of the possible solid polygons, so I simplified the shapes too much: this makes some slopes and loops, or ramps a bit rough and some cars can have problems; the double loop can only be done with Humma (I think, from what I have tested) and it's very hard to do, because of the camera and because of the rough polygons of the loops that make the car slow down a bit at each change of angle. To fix this I should remodel a big part of the track and I don't think it would be a good decision, especially considering the huge delays the track had already.

P.S.: The track is still a bit heavy, if people will have issues with the framerate despite the huge optimization, I will release a version of the track without the background models.
Though, I can run it at about 60fps on my ultrabook that's not very powerful, so I assume that most of you won't have problems this time.

I don't know if you tryed my work:

under water the car can't go straight, because i wish to ...
have a look on NCP file to know how I did that

This can also help phat slug

here is my last old work on it

FPS could be improved with "funny balls" or something like that, it was an experiment but it made Jailhouse Rock performance excellent.
About polys perhaps only just put collision on the racing line and make it smooth to pass the loops. the double one can be easily done with cockpit camera, didnt tested but have experience from GTA online wallrides.
dont mind me, sharing some opinions
Great track!

sebr @ 9 Jul 2016, 12:07 PM wrote: I don't know if you tryed my work:

under water the car can't go straight, because i wish to ...
have a look on NCP file to know how I did that

This can also help phat slug 

here is my last old work on it

I had not tested the lastest build... yeah textures aside, that's pretty much close to how my version is currently, minus water and AI lines (that can't do until I do the farce fields).
Animated waterfalls also, I didn't expect that!

I can't open the NCP file because I don't have the Blender Plugin -.- I can export but not import (or the other way, well the concept is clear).

Anyway, my NCP is 1,10 MB while yours is 1:50 MB, but the framerate looks slighty better in your version, I don't know why (but very slighty, it's not much different in my version); probably because in my version there are more textures in use and especially the animations have more frames, dunno.
(the W file is smaller in my version too, is around 4 MB while the other one is around 8 MB)

I don't like the water though... the water was meant to act differently in the original concept. The lower gravity should make those little jumps easier to pass, and there should be a small farce field on the water's surface that should allow the cars to reach the upper part if fast enough, or if R6 Turbo
The waterfalls pushing you outside are ok but I think they are too strong.

I have a strange idea for checkpoints... well maybe it may make people rage, but I want to try anyway... they would act as checkpoint, so that if you cancel the car you will restart from the last checkpoint. It's made because it was like this in Sonic, but also because, if you go into a route that's oo hard, you will return at the start and you can choice a different route. Also, this makes the weapons more effective, because if you launch the opponent outside the track, he will restart from the checkpoint and you will have a bigger advantage.
I know that this makes the result of the race more random (because pickups are more powerful and they are random), but this is an experimental track.

FPS could be improved with "funny balls" or something like that, it was an experiment but it made Jailhouse Rock performance excellent.
About polys perhaps only just put collision on the racing line and make it smooth to pass the loops. the double one can be easily done with cockpit camera, didnt tested but have experience from GTA online wallrides.

What is "funny balls"?

"funny balls" is the main difference betwin W and PRM

basicaly it work like visibox but is directly coded on W
(i did it on my GreenHill version, it's why biggers filles give the same fps)

jigebren made a tool "WorldCut" to do it easyly
more info and dowload here

easily*

Hm... checkpoints sounds a good idea but tough to make it work. the best you can do is define sections with Track Zones (TAZ), Repoistioning/reset is based on POS nodes i think, i am not completely sure but i am sure that AI nodes (FAN) are actually a factor. especially on a track without pos nodes.

Perhaps the pushing waterfall is intended similar to water surfaces seen in mario kart wii (possibly other MKs too)

Perhaps you could invert gravity at some point? mind that particularly ai and old versions if the car is slow a reset is forced because its upside down and given how ai nodes work this can make you stuck forever as seen in some warehouse-themed-stunt-track, i dont remember which, that has a upside down part

textures are a low impact to FPS, it's a problem when you look at either million of small textures or 10 HD textures on a little old computer, visible polys do, funny balls are comparable to vis leaves or visualization optimizations that consist in hiding unnecessary polys to optimize performance.

I wish re-volt has a way to measure the performance budget as many other games do.

repositioning*

I wish re-volt has a way to measure the performance budget as many other games do.

You can use -gamegauge to do a performance measurement of any given track, you just need to store a replay of that track first and then swap the files around.

One measurement by itself might not tell you much but if you want to test how much certain things improve performance in your track (like lower poly count, Visiboxes and/or "funny balls" aka BigCubes), then it can yield useful information.

As for overcoming big jumps and/or high steeps with slow cars, you might want to look into "Jump AI nodes", though it should be used with care if you want to keep a good balance between normal racing and being able to exploit this feature.

I used WorldCut with the default settings on the track and now the framerate is almost constantly above 100fps on my notebook (that's very weak), and it's around 150fps most of the times (before it was about 60fps).
Some moments it drops down to 40fps, but only for less than a second.
The performance are even slighty increased compared to the sebr version of the track!

Perhaps using vis in these cases might help. I am not sure about whatever the world disappears with funnyballs like it does with vis when you hide something.

Hi, I made some progresses!

@sebr I was watching your version of the track with MiG and I noticed something:
the env surfaces are correctly mapped, while in my version of the track they sometimes glitch.
I thought that it was due to the too big amount of polygons in the track, but in your version the glitch is not present, how is it possible, how have you done it?
Especially when I enter in a MiG edit mode that has semi-transparent blocks (like track zones), the graphics will glitch badly, but not in your version, despite having transparent water (I realize that if I disable the transparent property from the surfaces the glitch doesn't happen but that's annoying).

Thank you!!

I managed to do the water like I said in the thread, but the issue is that apparently there isn't a way to do it in a single block, unless I go out from the waterfall in a bad way, but I don't like that... I'm thinking of a solution that is as professional-looking as possible but I haven't got any idea yet.

I also have some problems with the checkpoint thing, I figured out that it can be done by manipulating the AI line but this way the AI cars won't have a proper path to follow, so probably it can't be done but I have some experiments to do yet.

The works are still going on, I'll report any other progress when things will be done.

Perhaps sebr used a better tool? Blender?
Note: POS are the game "GPS"
yes, if you wish to take the checkpoint approach you're risking no ai. Maybe discard it?

MiG?? Never heard of that tool.

Good luck!

Thank you
I used rvtmod8 and 3DSMax, maybe Blender exports with no issues...

Anyway, MiG is Makeitgood

Iko @ 15 Jul 2016, 04:51 AM wrote: Hi, I made some progresses!

@sebr I was watching your version of the track with MiG and I noticed something:
the env surfaces are correctly mapped, while in my version of the track they sometimes glitch.
I thought that it was due to the too big amount of polygons in the track, but in your version the glitch is not present, how is it possible, how have you done it?
Especially when I enter in a MiG edit mode that has semi-transparent blocks (like track zones), the graphics will glitch badly, but not in your version, despite having transparent water (I realize that if I disable the transparent property from the surfaces the glitch doesn't happen but that's annoying).

Thank you!!

you may have too many translucent, env mapping and others particular faces on your track
If I remember outside the island I disabled everything : only texanim for waterfall
...

Iko @ 15 Jul 2016, 04:51 AM wrote:I managed to do the water like I said in the thread, but the issue is that apparently there isn't a way to do it in a single block, unless I go out from the waterfall in a bad way, but I don't like that... I'm thinking of a solution that is as professional-looking as possible but I haven't got any idea yet.

Re-Volt can manage 16 different texanim blocs ...
And Blender Can do it, i don't know for others tools

Iko @ 15 Jul 2016, 04:51 AM wrote:I also have some problems with the checkpoint thing, I figured out that it can be done by manipulating the AI line but this way the AI cars won't have a proper path to follow, so probably it can't be done    but I have some experiments to do yet.

If I remember Ai-Node is used to reposition your car and Pos-Node for Ai-Cars
so put them at the same place for better work
And don't forget that TrackZones are used by the game to know where reposition the car



I need your track if you wish better help
More easy to find what's wrong ...

I'm wrong, actually the glitch is present in your version of the track as well, and those glitches are presents in other custom tracks too (not sure if stock tracks also).
I tried on different PCs and one of them had WinXP and Re-Volt 1.1, and the glitch is still present.

[HIDE=Offtopic]


[/HIDE]

What confused me is that it doesn't appear until you create a box.

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Re-Volt can manage 16 different texanim blocs ...
And Blender Can do it, i don't know for others tools

About the water, I meant farce fields, not texanim. The water section is angled and the rectangular farce fields blocks don't fit very well... assembling it with multiple blocks may not be the best thing but probably it's the only possible way.

Anyway, thank you very much for the info about 16 texanim blocks, it's very useful especially since I would like to make a simplified texanim tutorial for ARM after Green Hill will be copleted (I will probably make it in Italian and English so that it could be used by everyone).

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I asked on ARM about how to do the checkpoints and an user (Ciccio) said me that it's probably possible, I should make all the AI line outside from the track zones except for the nodes where I want the car to spawn... but there may be problems with the "X" and with other stuff.
I'll try...

Thank you anyway!

EDIT: well, I tried the checkpoint again, and I realized it can't be done.
The only way for doing it is by simplifying the AI line so much that it has only one node for each check point, but this way CPU cars can't race.
If I do the track without track zones (and put a track zone for each check point only) the game won't count the track zone values and it will constantly say "X", also, if you play the track on 1.0/1.1 your car will be canceled every second, just like the CPU cars do in the current version of the game.
everything else doesn't work.

So it will be a regular track, no checkpoints unfortunatelly... maybe I'll put an optional AI line file with the checkpoint gimmick for online play in the package, but you will need to manually replace it when you want to switch between CPU AI mode and Checkpoints mode.

i'm sure we can do something about checkpoint

checkpoint = red and white things ?

sebr @ 16 Jul 2016, 08:09 AM wrote:i'm sure we can do something about checkpoint

checkpoint = red and white things ?

Haven't played sonic but i think he means something like this: (GTA Races)

This is how checkpoints looked in the original Sonic the Hedgehog game, and below how they look in the track:


(the cyan thing is a laser and I already changed the sound).
In the game, they work like in most other platformers, if you reach a checkpoint, when you will lose a life, you will restart from that check point instead of the start of the level.

In Re-Volt I wanted to do the same, with the repositioning of the car: instead of repositioning it near the place where you left the track line or where you canceled the car, it would spawn you at the previous checkpoint instead.
But there are lots of problems as I said, don't know if there's a way for doing it.

AI line already works like checkpoints, but there are many of them, each node is a checkpoint. If you reduce the amount of nodes, the effect would be similar, but the AI cars wouldn't be able to follow the line; also, AI cars use the pos nodes to spawn, while the player uses the AI line, so it would influence both lines.

Basically mechanics in re-volt would be like GTAO ones....
and i've clearly meant mechanics-wise, i had forgotten how it was on sonic, thanks, similar to mario.
Perhaps we could convince huki to make a new way to make tracks? Seems FAN and POS are very gameplay-influenced both ai and player as you described. Maybe a new type of trigger.

Interesting idea regardless.

Farce fields!
Water, waterfalls, springs and even spikes, all of them have a set of farce filelds that make them more interactive.
I used many of them, for example, the spikes have 3 overlapping farce fields in 3 different directions that block the car until it's repositioned.

Though, I have a bad news, and it's that the track will probably not have the splash effect and the underwater blue effect, simply because the water boxes objects can't be rotated and if placed close to a wall, it will cause that wall to move (visually) and it's a bad effect.
I prefer having less effects rather than having more broken effects.

Todo list:

-water particles (probably, not sure)

-track zones, AI line and Pos nodes, inverted too.

-triggers (directions), triggers (car reposition)

-camera nodes, inverted too

-environmental sounds (probably, not sure)

There is still some work to do, it's September already and I will be very busy in short, I fear that the release will be delayed a bit again, though, it won't be for years like the last time; I hope to release the track as fast as possible but in the worst case, I think that the track will still be avaliable within this winter.

Thank you for the interest and for the patience, sorry for the huge delays, I'm desperate.

looks good

nice progress.
perhaps you could leave the swinging walls as a easter egg? i find it funny for some reason
its odd that one cant rotate water objects

im up for pre-release testing if you wish.

Hi friend

You're new additions on the circuit he will update in the download of the circuit.
And could you also do inverted mode, as I show in a video made by me.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxo4oLpncPM