Our ReVolt Pub

Phantom @ May 18 2013, 11:40 PM wrote: By the way, the build C has restored the Sound bug from the sound bug thread. My custom tracks are all silent again.

I have not touched the sound part, so maybe it's because of a missing dll. I've added it to the Build C2 archive. You can download it again and extract the included dll to your re-volt folder.

For info I've just set up another computer to do some online test in LAN. In my last attempt the game became very sluggish and reacted strangely, to a point it was almost unplayable. Don't know if that's the kind of behavior you were trying to describe about the Alpha builds, or if that's just another issue...

I just tried it, it had no effect. I'll explain what I do.

I reinstalled my revolt few days ago. Fresh installation from CD as always.
Then patched with 1225, then added the Build C2 (I already had the miles.dll in my folder at this time)
The only custom track I have installed on my installation so far is Brazil.

Stock tracks and frontend have music and sound effects normally, but when I load Brazil for example, the game mutes completely. I press ALT+TAB to minimize the game, I go to the volume mixer, I see Re-Volt volume completely down like Cat's screenshot shows so i put it to the top and go back to game.

Great, Brazil has volume again! But after going back to frontend, when I load brazil track for the 2nd time, Re-Volt mutes again. The same thing after exiting revolt and opening again.

So this is the situation.

Edit: With Huki's sound fix, Re-Volt only mutes 1 time, if I increase the volume mixer to the top, this change lasts in time. Remember huki gave us this build to Mandolin, Cat and me on January 2013. Build C is a newer version I think, so it should contain it, unless the changes made in huki's sound fix were not integrated into Build C yet.

@Phantom: I've never actually fixed the sound bug yet (other than sending you that test build). I've only added the proper fix yesterday.


Sounds strange that Build C is better than C2, because AFAIK C2 would only have more of our changes reverted back. Anyway, thanks for the reports.. we're still checking the network code.

It's time for another test build, maybe the last in this topic if everything is going alright. Then it could be merged with the next Alpha release.

What's new in this one?

1. The online timing code has been clarified to be more consistent. I have to admit we didn't care about the legacy compatibility in this release, since this was not the point here (if this works properly in v1.2 only race, we'll take care of the legacy compatibility later).
2. A long-time bug in the timers (affecting both online & offline modes) has been fixed (first time I faced this bug was when I was working on the Go Go bugfix during WolfR4 development and it was still not identified until now). This will make the timers more accurate and stable and should help making the online synchronization more efficient (at least in v1.2-only mode).
3. Slightly improved the remote car / object interpolation during online race.

Also, this build was made incompatible with older Builds, so that should make testing more consistent. And please remember that this has to be tested with Legacy Compatibility turned OFF in the Network Settings.

Download build D & E

If you want to go further in testing, I've also included the Build E, which is exactly the same as Build D except that I've re-enabled 2 fixes previously made to the physics engine. These fixes are worth being kept so it's interesting to know whether they can be included again or no.

We're waiting for your report before we can think about the next Alpha release...

The gameplay is back to normal.

Dolly about build D wrote:<Dolo> damn this build is too good !
<Dolo> i cant complain this time fuuuu

Pepper about build D wrote:<DrPepper> this build is so good that I can cry

Stingo about the build D wrote:<Stingox> phantom
<Phantom> yes?
<Stingox> this build left us with impressive results
<Stingox> its really a big difference
<Stingox> really like 1.1

I agree... For the moment !!!

Ok, nice. Can you try Build E as well?

I made a test today with cosmo kramer on the D & E build. I must say that the D build is a great step forward. I still have some detailed testing that I would like to do, but for now it seems almost or fully identical to 1.1. Testing the small differences is a hard thing to do and I will return here if I notice some strange collision or driving behaviours.

The E build collision was better than 1225 but the driving itself felt more similar. Again I might have to test it more detailed.

The D build was excellent.

With the build D, i played with an excellent stability during... 3 days !
Since, i can say that when i play with some players, the stability is not good, the collisions between cars are normal, but there is much lag and the weapons are too strong like before. For me, there is again a problem...

Dolo @ Jun 2 2013, 09:54 PM wrote: but there is much lag and the weapons are too strong like before. For me, there is again a problem...

Were the remote players using the build D as well? With the legacy compatibility turned off? And who was hosting the game?

jigebren @ Jun 2 2013, 06:22 PM wrote: Were the remote players using the build D as well?

Yes, we convinced everyone in the House to move to Build D aswell.

jigebren @ Jun 2 2013, 06:22 PM wrote:With the legacy compatibility turned off?

Some people don't know the meaning of the term legacy compatibility so i'll clarify this for Dolo and others to know what it is.

legacy compatibility on = all versions mode = late joining off

legacy compatibility off = 1.2 only mode = late joining on

Yes, we always use v1.2 only mode because of the late joining. We never use the 'all versions' mode.

---

I'm not sure if the following is a collission issue or physics issue but have you noticed that in offline mode when custom cars (specially fast ones) take a pickup, they take it in a strange way? The pickup dissappears completely from its place when being touched instead of showing the usual vanishing effect.

Just make a single race with 12 custom cars and observe other cars when they get pickups at high speed, you will notice this strange behaviour sometimes (not always).

@phantom Not necessarily custom cars but I noticed this online with just normal cars (ex toyeca), that they when they drove trough 2 pickups close to eachother, both of them would be picked up. The player himself gets only 1 pickup though.

And if im not wrong, late joining on means that you can use all 1.2 with late joining, from beta. That could mean that not everyone joins a room with only D build and that is probably why we see some collision bugs with or without weapons as dolo mentioned. The handling of the car and collisions seems fine but there is just something, hard to observe that is going on. As a stand-alone I think the D build is still great, and if everyone use D build online we wouldnt have any problems

@Phantom
The pickup behavior with fast cars is probably another kind of issue.

@Stingox
Not sure late joining actually allows older build to join. Huki should be able to answer more precisely about that point.

@Dolo, & others
I just double-checked the firework code... So far I haven't seen anything that could explain how this weapon could get stronger in any case, even when it lags. However, the weapon impact is randomized, and there's a noticeable difference between the maximum and the minimum possible impacts. That may even explain the strong impact in one of your videos... In case you're curious, I can supply a build that forces that max impact (on the local car only, not the remote cars). You may see what I mean.

On a side note, when talking about weapons can you be more specific now? I noticed that the firework and the blue shockwave are not handled online the same way than the water bomb for example. So knowing which weapon is concerned does matter.

>> there is much lag and the weapons are too strong like before.
Ok. But, I begin to wonder... Are you actually sure that under the same condition the v1.1 behavior would have been different? It seems hard to know whether the build is responsible of the lag or no, and in case of lag I guess the behavior have always been a bit awkward.

jigebren @ Jun 3 2013, 10:56 PM wrote:@Dolo, & others
I just double-checked the firework code... So far I haven't seen anything that could explain how this weapon could get stronger in any case, even when it lags. However, the weapon impact is randomized, and there's a noticeable difference between the maximum and the minimum possible impacts. That may even explain the strong impact in one of your videos... In case you're curious, I can supply a build that forces that max impact (on the local car only, not the remote cars). You may see what I mean.

On a side note, when talking about weapons can you be more specific now? I noticed that the firework and the blue shockwave are not handled online the same way than the water bomb for example. So knowing which weapon is concerned does matter.

>> there is much lag and the weapons are too strong like before.
Ok. But, I begin to wonder... Are you actually sure that under the same condition the v1.1 behavior would have been different? It seems hard to know whether the build is responsible of the lag or no, and in case of lag I guess the behavior have always been a bit awkward.

It's a feeling, just a feeling, but a good feeling. During the first days with the build D, it was stable, the rockets seem like v1.1. The gameplay seems very good. But since the stability of race is bad with always the same laggers, and why there are always too many laggers in 2013 ??? They ruin the gameplay for sure, all is too crazy !! And the rockets are too strong like balloons and the zap is strange too... The pushing between seem normal but sometimes it's a little hard. For me it's just a question of lag and stability of the game...

Dolo @ Jun 4 2013, 06:09 PM wrote: It's a feeling, just a feeling, but a good feeling. During the first days with the build D, it was stable, the rockets seem like v1.1. The gameplay seems very good. But since the stability of race is bad with always the same laggers, and why there are always too many laggers in 2013 ??? They ruin the gameplay for sure, all is too crazy !! And the rockets are too strong like balloons and the zap is strange too... The pushing between seem normal but sometimes it's a little hard. For me it's just a question of lag and stability of the game...

Just to be clear, the offline play is now "fixed" and this feeling of yours just occurs in Multiplayer or is it in Singleplayer as well?

If not then did you make sure that really all of the connected players had the exact same build?
Also perhaps the laggers just had a bad internet connection or some other connection issues, I guess best would be to try testing the multiplayer physics in a LAN game to exclude bad connections as a possible cause for the problems you described.

>> ... with always the same laggers ...
Just to be sure, what do you call laggers? Do you mean "people with a bad connection", or do you mean "delays that can be noticed when playing"?


About the weapon, I think we'll have to get into some details. I'll take the firework as an example since that's the code I checked.
To be relevant, you'll have to distinguish 2 cases:
1) your car is hit by a remote weapons (as in your video)
2) a remote car is hit by your weapon
There's another case: 3) a remote car is hit by a remote weapon, but let's ignore it for now.

I'm going to explain why this is important: Please read carefully

When you shoot a remote car, your computer moves the firework until it hit the car, then the impact is randomized and your computer blows the car away. For the remote player, his computer moves your firework until it hit his car, then the impact is randomized and his computer blows the car away.
From the time the weapon is shot until the car is blown away, there is no exchange of data between your computer and the remote one. It implies eg. that randomization is different on both computer, so the car can be blow away in one direction on your computer and in another direction on the remote computer.
Thereafter, when the remote car send you its real position, it will move very quickly to the new position, which may looks weird (all the more if the game lags at the same time).

However this glitch can't be noticed for your local car, because when it's hit by a remote firework, your computer does its own calculation (your car position is not remotely updated). Though it may look weird for remote players, on your side you can't notice anything.

So I case your actually notice your local car behaves weirdly with firework, then there has to be another issue.
But in case it mostly look weird for remote players, then it's the expected behavior when it lags...

Well to be fair re-volt dreamcast's physics is also different from the first pc release.

But keep in mind that it was the last acclaim release of re-volt so shouldn't 1.2 bring every feature of the dreamcast version? Like the time trial challenges.

J'ai rien pigé jig, et de toute ça n'avait surement rien à voir...
Sinon pendant ce temps-là on a droit à des contacts d'auto-tamponneuse, qui s'amplifient de jour en jour, genre t'as l'impression que le gameplay évolue...
du grand n'importe quoi comme d'hab ! Et les rockets malgré qu'elles soient aléatoires ne sont surement pas équivalentes à la version 1.1, j'ai jamais vu la toyeca voler en éclat comme ça sur des shoots de rockets...
Je pense que certains joueurs influent sur la stabilité de la partie suivant leur lag ou leur configuration générale de connexion ou autre. sauf que cela dérègle totalement le gameplay et tout est complètement "fou". Chose qui n'arrivait pas avec la 1.1 même avec un gros lagger.

Dolo @ Jun 20 2013, 09:57 PM wrote:Je pense que certains joueurs influent sur la stabilité de la partie suivant leur lag ou leur configuration générale de connexion ou autre.

Il y a de grande chances que ce soit ça. Il devrait y avoir moyen de repérer quels joueurs sont concernés, pour déjà savoir si ce sont toujours les mêmes ou pas.


And just to let you know, I have finally found the tool I was looking for: dummynet let me downgrade the network speed so that I can simulate a big network lag between two of my computers linked through LAN.
That'll help me greatly to see how Re-Volt reacts under bad network conditions.

I made a quick test already, using the "simulate an ADSL link to the moon" default values on dummynet webpage, and I could notice bad collisions between cars.
In fact in that case it was not that surprising... Let's say I have a computer A and B. When I enabled dummynet A could still see B but B seemed unable to see A anymore. When the A car collides with the B car, the B car is expected to be pushed and move. But since B doesn't see A, the B car sees no collision and doesn't move, and it keeps sending its current position through network to the A computer. Which means from the A point of view, the B car has just became unmovable, like an object of infinite mass...

jigebren @ Jun 21 2013, 02:45 AM wrote: I made a quick test already, using the "simulate an ADSL link to the moon" default values on dummynet webpage, and I could notice bad collisions between cars.
In fact in that case it was not that surprising... Let's say I have a computer A and B. When I enabled dummynet A could still see B but B seemed unable to see A anymore. When the A car collides with the B car, the B car is expected to be pushed and move. But since B doesn't see A, the B car sees no collision and doesn't move, and it keeps sending its current position through network to the A computer. Which means from the A point of view, the B car has just became unmovable, like an object of infinite mass...

Yes, that's logical, and this has always been like this, I reckon. I never felt that car-car collisions would be strange (in Arcade mode, not talking about Simulation ), the pickups sometimes seem strong, but that never really bothered me either.
What bothered me, that the driving of the car felt different. Somehow it was more sensitive, or I don't know, but that seems to have been fixed with the build D.

Congratulations jigebren! great finding!

tell me if you need some speedtests from the players, i can collect them for you to simulate.

I just made some other tests using dummynet (limiting the bandwidth to 128Kbit/s with a 300ms delay). I tested with build D (or my latest build which is very similar).

It appears that when there is such a lag the car-car collisions indeed behave weirdly (which is in fact the expected behavior I'm describing in my post just above).

Just to be sure I made a test under the same conditions with v1.1 (1207) and the car-car collision were just as weird (which also matches Balint12's post above).

So the weird car-car collisions behavior was not introduced by any of the v1.2 build. This is just an outcome of the lag between players.
That said, there is still a slight chance that v1.2 handles the lag less efficiently than v1.1, that it creates some kind of bottleneck in the online messages management, etc. but to that point that sounds a bit unlikely.
The fact is that it's hard to explain why the lag would have suddenly increase... Maybe the introduction of new Windows OSes could be a line of investigation.

Phantom wrote:tell me if you need some speedtests from the players, i can collect them for you to simulate.

Thanks, it would actually be interesting to try to pinpoint which players tend to introduce the most lag, then to conduce some speed test with them.
What data can you get, and how would you proceed?

jigebren @ Jun 21 2013, 10:28 AM wrote:

Phantom wrote:tell me if you need some speedtests from the players, i can collect them for you to simulate.

Thanks, it would actually be interesting to try to pinpoint which players tend to introduce the most lag, then to conduce some speed test with them.
What data can you get, and how would you proceed?

At the moment I can get you results of many players so you can have an idea of what kind of ping and internet speed the players in rv house have.

Also I believe some factors might reduce the performance as you mentioned in your last post:
New OSes consuming more resources and internet traffic than in the old times.
Background processes and programs permanently updating are more demanding nowadays.
People play online races with many browser tabs opened at the same time that consume bandwith (Facebook, Messenger, Skype, YouTube, etc). Bad habits!
People with many computers in their houses using the same wifi modem so their normal speed is often reduced considerably.

I will send them to you in private. I don't want this to end in a source of discrimination between the players or discussion about who has the best/worst connection, thing that already ended badly in the house.

i'm a lagger if we are more than 6 in the same race ...

Other line of investigation : revolt was made to work with 28.8k modem
I was playing with a 33.6k without lag ... Bad DirectPlay management with hi-speed connections ??

I'm ready for tests if you need ;-)

Phantom wrote:I will send them to you in private.

No problem.

And your post made me think about a point that didn't even come to my mind: wifi. I have to admit I'm really not into the wireless thing... Well, that could be a reason of extra lag even today, though I doubt it can explain everything, unfortunately.

sebr wrote:i'm a lagger if we are more than 6 in the same race

Is it always the case? No matter who the 6 other players are? No matter who's the host?
And is it actually better if you use an older build like the v1.1?

>>I was playing with a 33.6k without lag
Were you playing with more than 6 racer at that time? On a side note, I'm not sure speed and lag are always directly connected.

It's about 6, sometime more or less people before lag...

with Dolo as host i'm not realy lagging
with hil i lag each time ...

i didn't play online with v1.1 since a very long time

Just to clarify one point since I'm afraid everything got a bit mixed up in the same topic. We have to clarify what is actually the case discussed here:

1. there's lag issues with current v1.2 that are unnoticeable with v1.1 or older v1.2 builds.
2. there's lag issue with Re-Volt (v1.2 and probably v1.1 as well)

If I am not mistaken, first reports were rather about case 1 but I'm not sure it's still (or always) the case.
So feel free to clarify what it's about for any of you now (I mean after build D).

If you can remove any bug or something like that about lag, v1.1 or v1.2 what's the matter ? Just the lag is more important in 2013 with v1.2 than 2006 with v1.1, that's all ! By the way, with this build D, we can say that it was not a real collision bug...

Sorry Dolo, I didn't understand your last message. Can you clarify it?

Just the lag is more important in 2013 with v1.2 than 2006 with v1.1

The lag is bigger in 2013 and it was smaller in 2006?

The lag is more important to be fixed in 2013 and it was less important to be fixed in 2006?

By the way, with this build D, we can say that it was not a real collision bug...

Do you mean the problem is not related with collission anymore? Is this what you tried to say?

Phantom @ Jun 24 2013, 02:24 AM wrote: Sorry Dolo, I didn't understand your last message. Can you clarify it?

Just the lag is more important in 2013 with v1.2 than 2006 with v1.1

The lag is bigger in 2013 and it was smaller in 2006?

The lag is more important to be fixed in 2013 and it was less important to be fixed in 2006?

By the way, with this build D, we can say that it was not a real collision bug...

Do you mean the problem is not related with collission anymore? Is this what you tried to say?

Yes the lag is bigger in 2013 with 1.2 and it was smaller in 2006 with 1.1... It's just an observation...

And now with the build D we can say since few weeks that the problem of the collision bug doesn't come really from a physical bug of the game but rather a bug of the lag management... or not !

Perhaps the bigger lag comes from the need to send bigger (bmo) files over the net.

Citywalker @ Jun 24 2013, 07:09 PM wrote:Perhaps the bigger lag comes from the need to send bigger (bmo) files over the net.

People mostly plays on same stock tracks, so it's not right.

[Edit]: Oh lol, I forgot that textures can't be downloaded on multiplayer.

Dolo @ Jun 23 2013, 06:55 PM wrote: If you can remove any bug or something like that about lag, v1.1 or v1.2 what's the matter ?

For this specific reason: if a recent v1.2 introduced a bug that's not in previous release (case 1), it means:
- IT IS possible to fix it!
- the way to fix it is just to find which modification has to be reverted (there's no new code to write).

But if it's rather new lag issues that make Re-Volt both v1.1 and v1.2 behaves weirdly (case 2), then:
- it's not about fixing a broken code anymore, it's trying to improve it to support worst cases than before.
- if there is actually too much lag (for whatever reason) it's possible that there's nothing we can do about it. The lag just has to be lowered.

That's why this point is really important. Before fixing anything one has to know what's actually broken.

CW wrote:Perhaps the bigger lag comes from the need to send bigger (bmo) files over the net.

Sorry, but what are you talking about? No image - in fact no file at all - is sent through network yet AFAIK. Did I miss something?

avec revolt 1.1 il y avait une option d'optimisation des pacquets en fonction des possibilitées de la connection internet : BANDWICH et LATENCY

chose qu'on ne retrouve pas dans les dernières alphas ...

I meant car textures. If anyone uses a custom car or something, what do the
others see?
...
The Mystery Car?

Then I'm completely off the mark, please ignore me.

Citywalker @ Jun 25 2013, 12:14 PM wrote: If anyone uses a custom car or something, what do the
others see?
...
The Mystery Car?

Yes the mystery car. ^^

No data more than the position of the car or the player's name is sent in multiplayer.

Phantom @ Jun 25 2013, 05:09 PM wrote:

Citywalker @ Jun 25 2013, 12:14 PM wrote: If anyone uses a custom car or something, what do the
others see?
...
The Mystery Car?

Yes the mystery car. ^^

No data more than the position of the car or the player's name is sent in multiplayer.

I would argue that there is also physical data to create actual interaction rather than just positional data for visual purposes.
But other than that, if you do not have the corresponding model in your directory then the Mystery car is the one shown.

Manmountain @ Jun 25 2013, 01:40 PM wrote: I would argue that there is also physical data to create actual interaction rather than just positional data for visual purposes.

Good point! My mistake.

And maybe the physical data transmission which creates the car-car interaction is where the lag system can encounter failures, or (maybe and hopefully) can be optimized.

I noticed on some race without big lagger since few days that it was a lag of car's position on some impact of rockets or bombs, it's really strange... for example, i can look a car explode on the same fake pickup that i will take some few seconds later... i just saw his car flown like if he took the bomb but without the graphics of explosion... and same with rockets...
This kind of lag/bug did not appear before...

@Dolo
Well, I'm afraid online messages may tend to get lost more easily than before. Not sure that would explain everything but maybe... For example in your case, we can imagine your computer have not received the message related to the remote car pickup, but still gets the remote position message. So it makes the remote car fly (because of remote position data) but without the explosion animation (because of missing message).

It's in fact similar in some ways to the behavior I tried to explain in this this topic above...

Anyway this part has rather to be checked by Huki, since he's mostly the one who took care of updating the online code. He was not much on the forum lately, but he's still here though.

I noticed the same situation that Dolo describes several times on 1225 all this year, it's not new.

About this topic, you didn't got an answer because nobody understood it clearly. I tried to make many people answer you for weeks but they didn't know how.. so.. it was never answered.

I sometimes feel we are mixing 2 different things on the same topic. Collission issues and Lag.

Both are annoying, and both are harming the gameplay i know, but they are different things imo.
Lag is only for multiplayer and collissions can be felt offline too, and I feel it all the time driving offline, specially custom cars. With Build D things are a lot better but still there are situations where you feel something is 'broken' and not good in the car-car touches.

I've been suggested to test in Clockwork Carnage mode. In a 30 cars race it can be easier to detect the issues.

I will try recording more of those 'situations' if i can, it's the only way we can contribute to any kind of fix.., if it's still possible.

For me, some strange collisions depends on the lag in multi, it's important to fix it in first and we'll see after if there is again a bug (and i think there is still a big difference about driving with my steering wheel between the 1.1 and the latest alphas, but i will create a new topic after this when it will be closed)

Phantom @ Jun 28 2013, 03:04 AM wrote: I will try recording more of those 'situations' if i can, it's the only way we can contribute to any kind of fix.., if it's still possible.

[youtube][/youtube]

This is arcade, 1.2 1225 + build D. -offline-

Dolo @ Jun 28 2013, 12:22 AM wrote:for example, i can look a car explode on the same fake pickup that i will take some few seconds later... i just saw his car flown like if he took the bomb but without the graphics of explosion... and same with rockets...
This kind of lag/bug did not appear before...

This kind of behavior has always existed and it's normal (well, for re-volt.. don't know if you want us to develop a brand new game )
In this particular case, the cars have to locally collide into the fake pickup to create the explosion. If a remote player bumps into a fake pickup, but due to some lag his car misses the pickup on your computer, there will be no explosions. But his position is synchronized, so you do see him fly in the air.

Dolo wrote:For me, some strange collisions depends on the lag in multi, it's important to fix it in first and we'll see after if there is again a bug (and i think there is still a big difference about driving with my steering wheel between the 1.1 and the latest alphas, but i will create a new topic after this when it will be closed)

I have to stress this again, lags cannot be "fixed". However if there is a noticeably strange behavior due to v1.2 code, we could always remove it and see if that changes anything (as we've done for the D build).
The issue with steering wheel sounds strange, are you sure there is still a difference with the D build? (I'm asking as you've only mentioned the latest alphas).

I haven't yet checked Phantom's latest video, I will soon.

[youtube][/youtube]
This is simulation, 1.2 1225 + build D. -offline-

I am not totally convinced these problems are directly related to V1.2, as I encounted a similar problem many years ago with the basic 1207 patch.


Both views of the same incident.

Phantom @ Jun 29 2013, 07:59 PM wrote: This is simulation, 1.2 1225 + build D. -offline-

Was it only in the replay like this or also when you were actually racing?
Because the replay doesn't "fully" reproduce a race.

Also since you were using custom cars it could be that their collision file is a bit weird? (I know one of them is Toycea, still a possibility though)

Kenny @ Jun 29 2013, 06:25 PM wrote: Was it only in the replay like this or also when you were actually racing?
Because the replay doesn't "fully" reproduce a race.

Also since you were using custom cars it could be that their collision file is a bit weird? (I know one of them is Toycea, still a possibility though)

I don't know why, but I had the feeling you were going to say that when i was uploading the videos.

Yes, Kenny... the collissions happened exactly like that when racing. If not, I wouldn't bother in opening Fraps and recording them.

And I don't think the cars hul are the problem here, those are classic cars i've used them for too long and i know how they feel in different situations. Also, it's not just one car involved. First 2, and then 3 cars that literally r@pe each other.

What Manmountain said is very interesting, if this was present in 1207 then it's something even harder to fix.

About the arcade video, I'm quite sure Dolo and the others online racers will recognize that bump/push, it's common in online races and terribly annoying. Does it happen in 1.1 as well? Maybe, i can't be sure until reproducing it. i'll try to reproduce it in the beta.

Thanks for the video, Phantom. I just had a quick look right now.
Can we have the name (download link maybe ) of the grey car being pushed up in the 1st video? Hmm, same thing for the red and grey ones responsible of the push, if possible...

Sure. All of them can be found at TheMe&Me's website - Page 9:
http://saver83.gmxhome.de/cars09.htm

Except for the Honda S2000, which is from Page 15:
http://saver83.gmxhome.de/cars15.htm