Our ReVolt Pub

ThugsRook @ Nov 11 2014, 02:45 PM wrote:

Citywalker @ Nov 11 2014, 05:17 PM wrote:

honestly, neither are actually good enough to make a serious difference. track AI is the major problem.

I can’t really imagine people overhauling the track AI in the tracks they use. It’s not easy, as I understand. So the only feasible option is to provide an easy way to let the game do the most it can with car AI (either Huki’s coding or everyone’s personal tuning).

stock track AI has been completely nerfed. all the cars turn very wide, go in stupid directions, and sometimes just drive directly into walls. reversed mode... reverse mode is a sad joke. even just returning the track AI to 'default' (centered) would be a major improvement.

there are plenty of user tracks that run stock 1.2b AI very very well, so that shows the problem isnt (or isnt entirely) the car AI.

if i had more experience id be editing the stock track AI.

Hey! Acclaim's AI is worse!! Huki's better but few things , at least try commenting AI section in parameters for all/stock cars, see if that improves.
You may want to get the source code and try to keep up with huki's work and bugs and such, see 1.2 thread and 1.2 changelog

^ ummm, me and you... we arent talking about the same thing

track AI and car AI are 2 entirely seperate things.

That track AI improved it's an excellent suggestion , I'd like to suggest the adding of support for multi-player screen-split over the LAN, being this the case, just 3 computers could host 12 players, Which I'm sure would have a good impact on the lag, that we all hate, don't you think?

revolting @ Dec 2 2014, 01:17 AM wrote: That track AI improved it's an excellent suggestion , I'd like to suggest the adding of support for multi-player screen-split over the LAN, being this the case, just 3 computers could host 12 players, Which I'm sure would have a good impact on the lag, that we all hate, don't you think?

That already exists and no game will splitscreen for multiplayer, play the current multiplayer, period, that kind of splitscreen is definitely something that nobody will ever do. (and no gaming developer ever did and wont do it)

about the AI, its defined in two places lol and the ai is already improved

support for multi-player screen-split over the LAN, being this the case, just 3 computers could host 12 players,

but do you guys think that it would be achievable?

revolting @ Dec 2 2014, 03:21 AM wrote:

support for multi-player screen-split over the LAN, being this the case, just 3 computers could host 12 players,

but do you guys think that it would be achievable?

Why you insist? if you want that then go play console netplay (ps1, n64 w/e)

(and no gaming developer ever did and wont do it)

You are not Huki, you don't know if he will do something like that.

^ ok let me say it this way... its not possible

^of course its possible, you can program pretty much anything assuming you have the required knowledge and more importantly the time.

However its very unlikely to happen since 1) its not a commonly requested feature (one person so far ) and 2) the time required to implement something like this is simply not worth it when you could just solve this by using more PCs.

Thats why you don't see something like this in any other games and also why Splitscreen is pretty much dead nowadays.

Yes, im not huki but i have a feeling and point to thugs for "answer for noobs" and i agree with kenny, thanks man.

regards

ps: im lazy to pile up quotes lol

^of course its possible, you can program pretty much anything assuming you have the required knowledge and more importantly the time.

That's fine, Maybe we need enthusiasm huki can achieve it!

what guys say?

A result to AI topic:

I made some test with 14.0208 and the result is that AIs are faster with 2 seconds/lap (1.984 sec) because of the rubberband effect when we overtook them.

This is 40 seconds if we talking about a 20 laps race.

The other problem is that Toyeca's full speed is 39 mph, but when rubberband effect is working Toyeca's speed will be 42-43 mph.
So it can be a good decision to make it optional, because it is a serious differencie.

revolting @ Dec 4 2014, 12:33 AM wrote: That's fine, Maybe we need enthusiasm huki can achieve it!

You are the only one who has requested this feature so far so I highly doubt it will ever be implemented. And as I said, the feature itself doesn't make much sense either when you could just "bypass" it by using more PCs.
Besides, there are way more important things on the todo list right now.

Kipy wrote:So it can be a good decision to make it optional, because it is a serious differencie.

I don't see the point you are trying to make. Does it matter for the AI car if it takes 40 seconds less to drive 20 laps?
Not to mention that rubberbanding usually works both ways (not sure how it is implemented here though), so you actually have a chance to catch up with a car that is 500m+ ahead of you.

Kenny @ Dec 4 2014, 03:27 PM wrote: so you actually have a chance to catch up with a car that is 500m+ ahead of you.

And why for it's good? Or for who? (if we don't count noobs and newbies)

I (personally) would like to catch up with that 500m+ car because of my own driving skills instead of kiddy-type “hand-holding” by the rubberband.
I similarly dislike the AI being cheatily pulled up to me from behind.
And faster/slower top speed may mess with optimum-tuned AI of difficult custom cars.

Just my 3 cents.

But of course, this is all a personal preference, hence the suggestion to make it _optional_.

if you really wanna mess with the rubber AI... start out a lap down (no weapons race) and see how long it takes to be in 1st place.

the longer it takes, the better the AI.
(crappy AI about 8 laps, good AI 15 laps)

the problem with the AI is that it follows you, the entire race, thats kinda boring
i prefer to play catchup.

Knock-out race mode (car in last place gets knocked-out after a certain time)
Soccer mode (score goals; Nhood1 battle + basketball + BigVolt)
Team racing mode
Shootout-modes:
--Multiplayer shoot-out mode with weapons (reach x hits, deathmatch/team deathmatch style)
no auto-aim; projectiles go in a straight line; only reflections!!

+2 hits: rockets, clone, transfer bomb
+1 hit: shockwave (flipped cars), electro, star, balloons, oil
0 hits: battery, ball bearing
-1 hit: bomb (self-destruct)

Add and adapt single player game modes (championship, time trial, practice, stunt, clockwork) in multi player!

No doubt all this Game modes would be easier to implement debug and develop once we can have 12 players in just three computers, besides we would save all the money we would have spend in buying 12 computers , comment on the rationale to go whit this

Plus it might even help the AI (probably being on a close LAN setting where there is not lag at all developers would be more capable of monitoring human behavior and thus copy their movements into the AI making it beter), don't you think?

^ and who is going to do all that? especially since noone knows how?

keep dreaming

revolting @ Dec 5 2014, 06:59 PM wrote: No doubt all this Game modes would be easier to implement debug and develop once we can have 12 players in just three computers

Thats not how debugging and development works, as a matter of fact it would only make it harder to debug and trace down any eventual bugs.

revolting wrote:besides we would save all the money we would have spend in buying 12 computers , comment on the rationale to go whit this

I have the strong feeling that by "we", you're talking about yourself. I've never heard of a user trying to accomplish something like this because he had a shortage of computers, not to mention that this game is so low on hardware requirements, it should run on pretty much on any PC that is able to run Windows XP/Vista/7/8 (which is moreless the standard nowadays when it comes to Windows OS's).

revolting wrote:Plus it might even help the AI (probably being on a close LAN setting where there is not lag at all developers would be more capable of monitoring human behavior and thus copy their movements into the AI making it beter), don't you think?

Again, thats not how it works, you can't just "monitor human behavior", "copy their movements into the AI" and have it result in an improved (or even working) AI.

Last but not least I would say that AI is the least of our worries right now, especially with the current development status. Besides, its not broken so why try to fix it?

Nobody will use the feature, especially when no one can control more than 1 car at the same time

maybe put something more constructive, like NoPausing for Multiplayer (to prevent "locks"), or devless replays or maybe more than 12 racers

you know nothing about the life of a computer program :|


FYI, trackmania uses replays for tracks, thats why it looks like AI, but its all human made actually.

-1 for revolting
+2 for thugs and kenny

Being constructive I think it would be good to add an option to select a static color when chatting on multiplayer, you know sometimes multicolor gets in our nerves and it's annoying at times too

QUOTE (revolting @ Dec 5 2014, 06:59 PM)
No doubt all this Game modes would be easier to implement debug and develop once we can have 12 players in just three computers

Thats not how debugging and development works, as a matter of fact it would only make it harder to debug and trace down any eventual bugs.

That's why we should add it that way wego won't like the code and will drop it again
XD

revolting @ Jan 1 2015, 11:40 PM wrote:

QUOTE (revolting @ Dec 5 2014, 06:59 PM)
No doubt all this Game modes would be easier to implement debug and develop once we can have 12 players in just three computers

Thats not how debugging and development works, as a matter of fact it would only make it harder to debug and trace down any eventual bugs.

That's why we should add it that way wego won't like the code and will drop it again
XD

Nope.

Also there should be useful a feature to introduce the mouse to navigate the camera while playing, for example when on a Lego track you're going up through a ramp you can't see what's ahead but if using the mouse is allowed you'll be able to see at least a few seconds, this might be like copying the GTA V where you can use the mouse to change slightly the camera view for at least few seconds

We could also add a pickups repositioning feature just for multiplayer mode, let's say we are running toys in the hood 1, in order to get the pickups at times you'll have to stray from your course, but if we create this feature, you' won't have to anymore, thus the pickups would be on the shortcuts instead of in the regular AI path

Another good feature to add would be allowing revolt to put the retrovision camera on the second monitor by default, thus you could actually drive as you would in a real car , also this feature would be very useful in battle tag,

Ohh, God...

As soon as Huki will eventually start rewriting the code to an open source base and will release his work open source, you could implement anything you want by yourself and make a PR to the main repository.
I doubt that some of your ideas would meet the majority approval, but anyway, you could customize the game as you want. Until then please keep dreaming silently...

, Cool everything is possible right? Another good implementation would be to enhance revolt Championships, as of now you can win every race in a championship in first place, yet revolt won't recognize it when you go to play in single race mode the same track you had already won in the championship, It shouldn't be this way cause it slows down your progress in the game don't y'all think?

Bug Report (didnt want to clog up the new thread for old bugs)

this is an original bug from 1.0, still exists today in all versions of RV.
~mirrored mode doesnt reverse the SFX channels.

ThugsRook @ Jan 22 2015, 02:39 PM wrote: Bug Report (didnt want to clog up the new thread for old bugs)

this is an original bug from 1.0, still exists today in all versions of RV.
~mirrored mode doesnt reverse the SFX channels.

lol, that's not even a bug, it would be weird having "wrong" SFX!! mirrored graphics isn't enough for you?


Also, Did you and mightycucumber took in account SebR fixes???? (i guess he didn't)

^ so you like cars coming up on the right sounding like theyre coming up on the left?

or do you not know what you are saying?

why not port the game to be run natively on a 64bit system ?

Bug Report (didnt want to clog up the new thread for old bugs)

this is an original bug from 1.0, still exists today in all versions of RV.
~mirrored mode doesnt reverse the SFX channels.

Interesting, I didn't know that

revolting @ Jan 23 2015, 08:44 PM wrote: why not port the game to be run natively on a 64bit system ?

It already works on 64-bit systems. The only problem is Windows 8 right now.

revolting @ Jan 24 2015, 01:44 AM wrote:why not port the game to be run natively on a 64bit system ?

Honestly, there is no much point porting such an old game to 64bit. The game barely uses any memory on today's machines. I doubt it will be any use for loading even 4K textures.

BTW, the games are still heavily developed for 32bit systems. It is for the same reason - games doesn't need more than 4GB of RAM. You can count non open source games with native 64bit support on fingers.

Eventually, it will be needed, but definitely not soon. 16bit was dropped after all, it will happen someday to 32bit as well. 64bit isn't 'definite' standard yet, so 32bit is still common.

Re-Volt will have some suggestions.
1: The tournament brings different atmosphere to the game, would be super if there are online.
2: Turkish, I at least had of done translation.
3: In-Game plugin system would not be bad. (Example: supertuxkart)
4: You can change the name of the state should be in the original section.

Offtopic:
@VaiD: wow, you've made a very cool avatar! Maybe it's an old one, but I just noticed that right now...

ThugsRook @ Jan 22 2015, 11:09 PM wrote: Bug Report (didnt want to clog up the new thread for old bugs)

this is an original bug from 1.0, still exists today in all versions of RV.
~mirrored mode doesnt reverse the SFX channels.

Haven't checked it myself, but thanks for the report, we'll look into it eventually.

Here's a weird one with respect to GameRanger; How about CommandLine being useable in settings.ini?

ElectricBee @ Jan 31 2015, 02:46 PM wrote: Here's a weird one with respect to GameRanger; How about CommandLine being useable in settings.ini?

Hi, in what way this could benefit us? Allowing the use of window mode or emulatefullscreen without needing the revolt shortcut so that we can use them in GameRanger?

I was thinking about a solution to it too and I thought of adding a key combination to activate things like window mode. There's already a key combination for activating dev mode so something similar would be helpful, and easy to use. Like Ctrl + W = window mode.

Most races are hosted in GameRanger nowadays, so I agree something about implementing the commandlines without need of the shortcuts should be done.

IF Open_RV uses SDL it can use an INI file.

IF that is the case i would suggest allowing for an insane amount of command line options, including rediculous non-stock options.

Well, key combos would be nice but who would remember? It's easier to tell people to just drop command-line stuff into the game so people aren't asking "Where do I input this?"

Also, I believe No Pause should be a commandline feature for people who care about using it. I always go out of my way to enable it under the perception I'm not lagging everybody else out when I alt+tab out.

Maybe as a comandline function, -nopause?

The only problem I see, is RV House's command-line options conflicting with settings.ini CommandLine. Maybe, if it can be baked into the binary, to ignore command lines put into RVHouse and from run? I know, sounds stupid but the possibility for issues is there. Then when people use an older version of the game, their switches from RVH and GameRanger would work. (Hooray trackpads! I #&@<!^% hate them.)

(It would be better if these options were enabled from the Options menu item but the lazy way for this to be implemented would be to make an installer for the new build that pauses the installation to display a message about the change from how command lines are handled.)

ElectricBee @ Jan 31 2015, 02:46 PM wrote: Here's a weird one with respect to GameRanger; How about CommandLine being useable in settings.ini?

Pointless and you need Scott Kevill to support that ._.

ElectricBee @ Jan 31 2015, 07:22 PM wrote: Well, key combos would be nice but who would remember? It's easier to tell people to just drop command-line stuff into the game so people aren't asking "Where do I input this?"

Also, I believe No Pause should be a commandline feature for people who care about using it. I always go out of my way to enable it under the perception I'm not lagging everybody else out when I alt+tab out.

Maybe as a comandline function, -nopause?

The only problem I see, is RV House's command-line options conflicting with settings.ini CommandLine. Maybe, if it can be baked into the binary, to ignore command lines put into RVHouse and from run? I know, sounds stupid but the possibility for issues is there. Then when people use an older version of the game, their switches from RVH and GameRanger would work. (Hooray trackpads! I #&@<!^% hate them.)

(It would be better if these options were enabled from the Options menu item but the lazy way for this to be implemented would be to make an installer for the new build that pauses the installation to display a message about the change from how command lines are handled.)

Or automatically enable NoPause when its Lobby mode? and let LShift+F9 available without dev

ThugsRook @ Feb 1 2015, 01:44 AM wrote: IF Open_RV uses SDL it can use an INI file.

In fact we already use our own code to read and write the ini files, so there's no need for external support.

Abc @ Feb 1 2015, 08:37 PM wrote:

ElectricBee @ Jan 31 2015, 02:46 PM wrote: Here's a weird one with respect to GameRanger; How about CommandLine being useable in settings.ini?

Pointless and you need Scott Kevill to support that ._.

Not true. Scott doesn't have to do anything to support that.

Using the switches would not be a fundamental change to how the software connects users, because no matter what switches are enabled in Re-Volt House, the very first thing it does is connects and synchronizes everybody in the game lobby, regardless of mode.

Putting it in settings.ini can not only make switches in GameRanger possible, RV House can also have the command line option omitted completely in the future, depending upon if the community moves on to use that build or future builds with these switches in settings.ini near-exclusively. (RV House can also be made completely irrelevant if Open RV had the netplay support built into it.)

I would never touch GameRanger with Windows 8, on the fact that the game lags and runs like pooh unless I use -emulatefullscreen with it.

Yea, you need to talk with scott to make use of emulatefullscreen on win8

and well, you DONT need commandlines except these and they're improvements so its worth adding for *all* players

Sounds a bit intimidating, Unless you're a geek like ABC, "But there is success* through many advisers", so thus anybody else purpose something

I wonder how no one has ever proposed this. So here I go:

What about adding an option to run the game really faster (something like x60 or x100, or at least the speed of -gamegauge mode) when running -dev -gazzasaicar commands? That, if possible, would let the user to test different AI configurations for a car or a track with more consistent results in a short time.

nevermind @ 16 Feb 2015, 01:32 PM wrote: What about adding an option to run the game really faster (something like x60 or x100, or at least the speed of -gamegauge mode) when running -dev -gazzasaicar commands?

I would rather like to see the exact opposite, namely to either slow the game down or even completely stop it.
Though I guess that wouldn't be a popular feature as I would mainly like to have it to be able to follow the steps of the AI (since it goes way too fast in normal speed to be able to understand whats going on, at least in most cases).

Actually I would like to see a major overhaul of the entire MAKEITGOOD mode because in its current state its rather painful to use (even if you know your way around with the specific keyboard shortcuts and the quirks of each edit mode).
But I guess thats another thing that would require too much time and effort to implement so I'll just keep on dreaming

Something about GUI now. I would like shortcuts for certain options that until now were only accesible via Frontend/Options/Game Settings in order to apply the following settings when the player is in the track without going back to frontend, for example after a simple restart.

Settings like:
• In Single Race: option to change Number of laps, turn Pickups on or off, select collission mode (arcade, simu, etc), enable/disable random tracks without going back to frontend.
• Change track offline without going back to frontend, like it was recently added for online.
• In Time Trial: Enable/disable Ghost car and switch between Global/Per-rating.
• In Multiplayer Race: The same than single race. Number of laps, Pickups, Collission mode, etc.
• In Battle Tag: The minutes of the battle.

And most important:
• Rename the "Configure controller" menu to "Controls" and move it to something more accesible.
It should be accessed simply via Escape, not via Escape/Options/Configurations/Configure controller. I always have a hard time indicating people how to change these settings because it is hard to reach it inside so many sub-menus.

Excellent suggestions Phantom, probably if you provide Jig with a kickback, he'll be able to implement them faster ,

@Kenny, I use to have a bug, and it did made revolt in slow camera, in the end it had something to do with a certain driver and window manager I had installed, BTW it was random but yeah at a certain slower speed it looked really cool specially for the jumps and antics I was performing, so absolutely I go for it , excellent suggestion.

nevermind @ 16 Feb 2015, 09:32 AM wrote: What about adding an option to run the game really faster (something like x60 or x100, or at least the speed of -gamegauge mode) when running -dev -gazzasaicar commands? That, if possible, would let the user to test different AI configurations for a car or a track with more consistent results in a short time.

Yes please, a GUI for time control! (Finally!!)
useful for replays and gazza modes

Is gazza mode the one where you can modify the car's nodes or AI?