Our ReVolt Pub

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zXbT76JGbk

Don't ask me what happened but everyone's collision is "bigger" than supposed to be. Try getting past someone you can't.

Thanks for the explanation, Huki. Yes, I am and was aware at the time of my posting that the AI is in wip state currently. Your words serve to more fully flesh out my perception of your current status and future goals however, so for that I am grateful.

Frankly, that's exactly why I chose this time to dive in and offer up my voice to the existing gallery of rogues, if you will. I know how it is, some new guy shows up and starts throwing around his opinions. For my part let me say that my only interest lies in helping to make Re-Volt into an even better game than it already is. I plan to offer more to the community in the future in the form of repaints and re-tunes, and if I get really ambitious maybe some custom cars or possibly even a track if I completely lose my mind. I've got zero problems with modeling and texturing, but the rest still seems a little daunting at this point. Perhaps that will change as my desire to drive my own vehicle grows.

Right now though, is the golden moment...the time of birth where one has the opportunity to influence a new creation. Since this creation...Re-Volt v1.2...is one that I wish to spend some time with, I wanted to step up offer what assistance I could in order to make the end product as good as possible.

Like I said, I only seek to offer my assistance toward that end. If it is determined that my input is less than helpful I will gladly step back and let you guys go at it.

I am an example of the current 'internet age', if you will. Though you have no idea who I am (I am slowing trying to rectify that with my somewhat verbose posting), since coming across Re-Volt a couple of months ago I have been visiting all the related web sites, downloading cars, tracks and just gathering info about the game itself. During the course of this journey I have read posts dating back approx. 7 years, I think. Though it was not really my intent, the result was that I almost came to know a number of you who have been with this game from the beginning (whatever you want to call that).

I came to appreciate the way that Citywalker thinks and the way that she expresses herself. Passionate and intuitive, her charming and well-constructed posts were as much a pleasure to read as they were informative. The way she gathers and presents information is much like my own so learning what she has chosen to share was both a pleasant and rewarding experience. Jigebren, aside from your extra helping of computer skills and what appears to be the patience of a saint, you seem to be a genuinely nice person. As for Huki, I perceive a keen finely honed mind, it's sharp edge softened only in form by your mild demeanor. As polite as you are, you have the strength and ablity to defend your own beliefs. Perhaps most importantly, you all seem to be nicely self-aware.

In short, to my eyes you are good people doing a good thing. So there you go. If I can lend a positive hand to such an effort then so much the better. I'm fairly decent with graphics and modeling, and I've gotten pretty good at tweaking parameters so if there is a need then perhaps I can pitch in. Otherwise, I can just offer encouragment, some feedback on the tools, and maybe an opinon or two.

Huki ~
As for that video...yep, I'm interested. All of that looks real good. So does that represent the current state of the AI, and is that different that what was just released? (Don't worry, I'm not going to nag you about getting a new release out)

gdfsgdfg @ Dec 21 2011, 02:50 PM wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zXbT76JGbk

Don't ask me what happened but everyone's car (how do you call this?) is "bigger" than supposed to be. Try getting past someone you can't.

Two words: Arcade Mode (?)

Yeah, cars are definitely bigger than they should as we can see in gdfsgdfg's video! Just tested on Botanical garden!

Dave-o-rama @ Dec 21 2011, 08:49 PM wrote:

gdfsgdfg @ Dec 21 2011, 02:50 PM wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zXbT76JGbk

Don't ask me what happened but everyone's car (how do you call this?) is "bigger" than supposed to be. Try getting past someone you can't.

Two words: Arcade Mode (?)

Yup this was on hil's room too.

And it may the be the reason why miromiro is always 1st or maybe not

I've had the arcade mode collision 'issue' for as long as I can remember.

It was hard to get used to it, cars colliding into each other even though there was no visible contact, especially after playing on Simulation mode for so long.

Problem says earlier and shown in my video, there you see everything of the bug of collision : http://www.mediafire.com/?1zzfbf7t140fc7k

But I'm afraid most people have failed to read an important note in the readme / change log, regarding the AI.

Yes, your AI is currently a WIP, but IIRC, you can’t very well go back with it. So we’re all stuck with it until you get it ironed out or revert to older version and redo all the other improvements from scratch. And I have a hunch that you don't want to do the latter option (I know, I’ve been there).

Now, with the source code, we are interested in directly working with the AI engine and do not want to use workarounds at this stage.

I sense a logic error here. Maybe several.

With the quoted sentence, you are sort of denouncing any editing of the parameter.txt AI values. Yes, simplified AI is a workaround, but not a hack. It’s a legitimate method of using the parameters.txt AI values to let the AI run a car well. This is an underlying principle of Re-Volt’s AI code. I understand that the simplified AI is an extremely out-of-the-box implementation of this principle so that it may not fit very neatly into your mindset of the Re-Volt AI, but it works very well and is simple. What more do you want?

We are working in a completely different line here.

Does this mean that you want to get the game to run any car well, no matter its AI values in parameters.txt? If yes, then why the load of additional AI values in parameters.txt? And in such a case, you would need to hard-code a (half-)decent starting point for all cars (this could be the values of simplified AI with the fallback (i.e. 0 / 1 / 50000 / 50000 / 0.000001 / 50000). Do you have a better idea?) and work from there on with the game engine, trying to make it cope with every vehicle imaginable (and trust me, you can’t imagine everything that is/will be out there). And I have a hunch that you would have to employ a bit of code that adapts to the actual performance of the cars (which tend to be very different sometimes). If it does so on-the-fly, then it’s an impressive piece of artificial intelligence, very human-like. And would require a major flash of inspiration. Unless you already had that flash. OTOH, if it pre-adapts to the car before the race somehow, then how is that different from my suggestion of extending the “Calculate Car Stats” function with an algorithm for the simplified AI? AFAIK, there is no other way to adapt the AI behaviour to any given car than a ) directly calculating from the entire content of parameters.txt, which is an enormous task and requires you to consider all possible combinations of interactions between various parameter values there, or b ) empirical adaptation to in-game performance of the car, which is simply another name for an automated trial-and-error, albeit machine-quick and perhaps unnoticeable to human eye. Which method are you trying to use?

Oh, and 3) If you still want to use the AI values in parameters.txt, then why not making them simple, i.e. accessible for most people?

Anyway, I’m not _forcing_ you to use the simplified AI. I’ll be here with it, proving it in parallel for every future version of your game AI that still uses the AI values of parameters.txt, and providing it to you and other people as a possible improvement. If you can do well without it, then my hat is off for you, kudos, extremely-well-done and all that. Sincerely.

(Even if you’re currently practically throwing away something that’s simultaneously working very well for anything you may come up with in your game AI, lets the game run well all the interesting designs that are currently basically unsupported by the Re-Volt AI, and in its current implementation lets every carmaker have a bit of pride in finding a good AI value for their car while simultaneously not overwhelming them.)

Again, what exactly is your vision of the Re-Volt AI, Huki? Please tell me, so I can be of help instead of an obstacle.


Oh, and thanks for the kind words, Mythic.

@City: Ok, this is going to be big so hang on...

Yes, your AI is currently a WIP, but IIRC, you can’t very well go back with it. So we’re all stuck with it until you get it ironed out or revert to older version and redo all the other improvements from scratch.

Hmm no, that's not how it works. There are precise, countable number of changes, and any one of them can be cleanly disabled if required. Even if we need to revert back to an old source backup, we can easily compare the old and new files using a highly efficient tool called WinMerge. We released the current build with the WIP modifications, so we can get some decent feedback on what we have thus far (which I guess we're getting right now ).

why the load of additional AI values in parameters.txt?

Oh, those are temporary. As you know our unfinished changes are causing all the cars to zigzag, etc. To help interested testers, we wanted to include at least one working car. We quickly wrote some hacky improvements to the steer correction code, slopped in some new parameter entries and figured reasonable values for Sprinter XL. People can then use this car for testing without getting frustrated by the zigzags. But well, I guess people find it easier to revert back to an old release.. eheh.

Does this mean that you want to get the game to run any car well, no matter its AI values in parameters.txt?

This is a common goal for all of us, isn't it? We all want to run any car "decently" with minimal work. According to you, such a method already exists which is the simplified AI. Our goal regarding backward compatibility is to ensure such a method would still work. It probably won't drift on ice, oversteer (resulting from eg., a physical attack or weapon) would probably screw the car, but it will stick on the racing line unless provoked, and that seems to be enough for people (at least according to you).

huki wrote:We are working in a completely different line here.

By this, I meant our objectives are different. For an example, we want to improve the code behind the AI parameters, while you want to leave that piece of code untouched and be happy with the best you can get out of it (which is quite crappy). If you instead imagined we were going to work on a convoluted "standard" procedure to get the same results you had achieved i.e. keep the car on the racing line unless something bad happens (note that something bad always happens in RV Land), you must think we're pretty stupid.

huki wrote:Now, with the source code, we are interested in directly working with the AI engine and do not want to use workarounds at this stage.

I sense a logic error here. Maybe several. With the quoted sentence, you are sort of denouncing any editing of the parameter.txt AI values.

You know very well that the re-volt AI steering had been retarded - probably on purpose. This lets the AI steer smoothly in long straights, but it makes the AI unable to take twists and tight turns. It's a nice idea for open street conditions, just not for Re-Volt.

We had removed the steering retardation hack. The AI now takes the turns in eg., Toy World 1 with full throttle. It can now target itself into narrow pathways swiftly, take on multiple hairpin bends drifting smoothly without having to brake. It's just the way we used to play online - make as many twists and turns as possible, release a buttload of rockets on your opponent and continue on.. all this without taking your finger off the up arrow key (unless you wanted to take a drift of course). We also switched from non-linear to linear steering for the AI.

Of course, for the computer AI, such precise turning means side effects i.e. prone to oversteer, zig-zagging while trying to align towards the target point. The original AI engine cannot handle these side-effects, obviously. But coincidentally, the smoothed racing line and adaptive look-ahead both help the steering modification. So even with the new steering, cars never zigzag when run alone. In competitive races though, any small oversteer that occurs goes uncorrected and initiates a chain of zigzags. This can be taken care of by replacing the almost-insignificant UnderOverSteer correction procedure with something robust, efficient and actually working.

This would be what I meant by "directly working with the engine". No, of course we don't denounce the parameter entries. The current procedure that handles those parameters are just not useful anymore (the oversteer correction does more damage than good, understeer correction had been specifically programmed to kill drifting / sliding, and there is nothing to prevent a car from oversteering, let alone correct it). Are you sure the simplified AI does not oversteer? I'm not talking about either extremes (Volken or Pest Control), but the cars that human players can drive efficiently but AI fails to. Sprinter is one of them, which is why we're using it for development.

Yes, simplified AI is a workaround, but not a hack.

It's a hack because it tricks the engine into thinking the car is always understeering. It "pushes" a predefined value of steering (the UnderMax value) onto the car at every call, to compensate for the existing retarded steering. Hence it tries to keep the AI rigidly on the AI line like a train on rails - whereas the original implementation is very clear about allowing the car to drive freely inside the entire node path.

It’s a legitimate method of using the parameters.txt AI values to let the AI run a car well.

Yes, it is a legitimate way of setting the parameters. We are not going to break it. If people find it easy, they are free to use it for their cars. But are you sure it drives well, really? So much that any further improvement is completely unnecessary? We can just keep the crippled steering, attempt to compensate it by a little understeer correction, and forget about it already? Sure, it follows the AI line, but the first time I tried the simplified Sprinter in 1207, Toy World 1, alone in Edit Mode, it already has trouble making the first turn, spins out while climbing up, and barely makes it over the cliff after braking to a low speed. And it zigzags. Problem with ice need not be mentioned. You have to admit that anything better is just not possible with the old, unmodified AI engine.

I understand that the simplified AI is an extremely out-of-the-box implementation of this principle so that it may not fit very neatly into your mindset of the Re-Volt AI, but it works very well and is simple. What more do you want?

We don't mind unethical implementations at all. I'm still not completely sure whether the "steering retardation" was a hack or a standard procedure, still it was removed. But in the simplified AI case, "works very well" is a great exaggeration. Yes, it's simple for car makers but simplicity is not of any use for development.

To conclude, it is entirely up to the car author what method he uses to get his car AI working. To get a Killer AI that would try to compete closely with a human type driving, the car author would have to put his time and effort to set all the parameters to reasonable values, thereby teaching re-volt how to handle his car efficiently. But the majority (or perhaps all) of the car makers who only require an AI that works, could keep using the simplified AI, no problem. Come to think of it, till a few months ago, people copied the entire AI value set of their favorite stock car and got away with it.

Hey there,

Ive downloaded this and I really love it! I have one suggestion though..

You should add a feature that allows class or car ranking in time trials.

For example...if im getting a 42 second time with candy pebbles on museum 2, and then I play with toyeca, I'll easily beat that, so I wont know my candy pebbles record anymore. Would be better if I would always compete against my "candy pebbles" time when driving with candy pebbles, wouldnt it?

Or at least split it up into classes, like "Beginner", "Semi-Pro" etc. ? Is that possible?

Just some suggestion since im trying to become a really good player and dont want to manually note my records.

Thanks! And merry x-mas

sounds great huki, I'm all in for a better (harder) AI. especially since there are quite some tracks that cant handle the old AI well.

I already said this once here but again: I would vote for either a new difficulty mod that uses the new AI or we "delete" one of the old ones like Aracade or Console (I never noticed a difference there anyway and I believe that people barely uses one of them) and make the simulation the new hard mode with the new AI.
the old simulation mode could be used as Aracade mode.

jigebren wrote:Don't you have any error message of any kind? I just noticed when trying MythicMonkey's repaint (in which the aerial models are missing, leading to 2 error messages - and a crash that is now fixed) that just loading this car prevented most sfx to be played (but eg. the countdown or the piano in toyworld1 still plays).
A workaround is to simply open the in-game menu and resume. Does it work for you?

no, no error whatsoever. I installed a fresh ReVolt from the original CD, applied the patches, started the game and immediately noticed there was no sound.
after trying some things out with no success (trying different audio options, restarting, etc) I reinserted the CD and all of a sudden I had full sound (+music but thats no surprise).
I'll try to copy the version from my netbook on my pc and see if that works, if not the I'll report back.

jigebren wrote:Yep, I wonder why this white polygon has not been reported more often. But I think it was already visible in v1207, wassn't it? The only way to fix it would be to edit the world file.

About the red light, I don't know yet the source of this issue, but it seems that it was already present in previous v1.2 releases. I wonder though whether v1.2 always has this glitch or if it was introduced by an update.

I'm not sure if it was visible in 1207 but I have seen other videos on youtube where it was missing on toytanic 2 so probably yes.
also the red light was there at least in the last alpha patch but definitely not in 1207.

speaking of level bugs, there is a small area on toy world 1 where the car has no shadow (probably something wrong with the polygons of the floor?). its between the star and the piano, I'll make a screenshot when I have some time.

blend @ Dec 24 2011, 07:48 AM wrote: Hey there,

Ive downloaded this and I really love it! I have one suggestion though..

You should add a feature that allows class or car ranking in time trials.

For example...if im getting a 42 second time with candy pebbles on museum 2, and then I play with toyeca, I'll easily beat that, so I wont know my candy pebbles record anymore. Would be better if I would always compete against my "candy pebbles" time when driving with candy pebbles, wouldnt it?

Or at least split it up into classes, like "Beginner", "Semi-Pro" etc. ? Is that possible?

Just some suggestion since im trying to become a really good player and dont want to manually note my records.

Thanks! And merry x-mas

It's already been done. Have you tried the 0825 or 1215 alphas?

EDIT:

Kenny wrote:speaking of level bugs, there is a small area on toy world 1 where the car has no shadow (probably something wrong with the polygons of the floor?). its between the star and the piano, I'll make a screenshot when I have some time.

These? Yeah, I think it's something with the polygons on the floor.

I like the direction you seem to be headed in, Huki. Personally I'm willing to wait and see how your ideas for the AI play out.

yay, a new bug! Ok, on some custom cars when they appear in the frontend or in a race, their main bodies are too low, i was able to fix one of the cars by setting the second value under body offset to -8, I don't understand why only some cars do it but, anyway here's a screen shot of it:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8025 ... offset.jpg

link for the car:
http://rvzt.zackattackgames.com/main/co ... onvertible

stoney1918 @ Dec 24 2011, 07:08 PM wrote: Ok, on some custom cars when they appear in the frontend or in a race, their main bodies are too low, i was able to fix one of the cars by setting the second value under body offset to -8, I don't understand why only some cars do it...

Could be the springs and MaxPos value under wheels causing that, happens to my cars alot.

why are driver names so high

since driving this patch i noticed that bomb transferd every time,is that something u worked on or coincidence

Merry Christmas to all of you!

Behold the largest post in Re-Volt history...

Arcade Collision bug: Fixed now. For info, There was always a slight imperfection with collisions in Arcade or lesser modes though, even in old versions (this is most noticeable with Phat Slug). This is normal.

AI cutting corners: Will be fixed in the next release, as long as "walls" are placed properly. Walls are the green and red rectangles that are placed in AI Nodes edit mode using the 7 and 8 keys. The picture below shows the use of walls.



If walls are placed at tight turns, the AI will properly follow the racing line instead of trying to cut he corner. I think most track makers are aware of this feature (at least all of hil's tracks use them properly). Note that it is not necessary to set walls on both sides, it's enough to cover the inner edge of the turn alone (the picture above marks these places with a yellow arrow).

@hil: You can use the same method to prevent the AI from crashing into a rock placed inside the node path. Just cover the inner edge of the turn with walls.

Misc AI feedback:

CW and Phantom wrote:Don’t change the route-taking, just make the cars more intelligent at handling weapon impacts and crashes.

Kenny wrote:I also noticed on museum 2 that pretty much ever car tries to take the "shortcut" after the planetarium. its great that the AI takes now paths that were unused before but for me it looks like they are "forced" to take it now.

Believe me, we really haven't messed with the route taking. A bug was fixed that prevented the AI from taking an alternate route at all. This bug is most noticeable in, for example, Market2, when the AI tries to switch aisles. You'd notice that it gets confused, alternatively steers to either aisle and crashes inbetween.

The same bug forced all cars to take the shortcut over the curb in NHood1 (where they usually crash into the wall), instead of the normal route. Now that it's fixed, I wonder who's idea was that strategically placed traffic cone..

Kenny wrote:besides these facts I like the new AI and at least the races with the rookie cars on stock tracks are now for me much more interesting (I had already two very awesome races  )

For people who weren't in the mood to read the long reply to Citywalker above, our goal with the new AI can be summarized in one easy line: to get the racing behavior on-par with the current recovery behavior. Re-Volt's physics engine is so wacky that once a specialized AI to suit these conditions is built, getting a different, interesting race each time is no difficulty at all. Recently I've even seen a car balancing on it's 2 left-side wheels for a few seconds.

Pranav wrote:That is cool. By the way, is the AI improvement only for SprinterXL?

Improvement is for all cars whose parameters are updated to make use of the improvements. We would update the stock cars. Custom car authors can set the parameters in any way they are comfortable with.

Pranav wrote:Also, when doing races, how will the Sprinter recover when it gets unbalanced in the ice region due to attack by other opponents or any other reason?

Good question. This is very tricky as cars are always set to steer at full speed (when it's facing the wrong way). Note that we don't specifically detect ice surface and drive differently for it, the implementation is general. We also don't want to compromise behavior on normal surfaces, by slowing down steering for correction. The current idea (not yet implemented) is to,
- wait till the car is facing the correct direction again.
- Check if the car is still moving fastly sidewise.
- If so, reduce speed and steer a bit to the opposing direction till the sidewise movement comes to a halt.

The amount of speed reduction and opposing steering, should be set per-car as, for example, "throttle factor" and "steer factor". This is because some cars do not need this special handling in ice. Don't know if default values should be used for legacy cars..

MythicMonkey wrote:As for that video...yep, I'm interested.  All of that looks real good. So does that represent the current state of the AI, and is that different that what was just released?

Yep, it's the current AI state, different from the last release.

Pos Nodes bug: @Dave - I still haven't checked the Pos Nodes bug. I guess we'll keep that for later as it only occurs in that specific edit mode and only when spectating another car.

Profiles feature: Jigebren and I decided against a single-file format after quite a long discussion.

Phantom wrote:I actually thought about implementing a .SAV file or any single-file system to make it easier to port it to other PC and meet the nowadays standards.

Not nowaday's standards but commercial, packed format, which we are against as far as re-volt is concerned. Other than that, there are some very good reasons why we picked a multi-file system, which I'll try to explain below.

Now I see a bunch of .levels files together with a .ini file which should be "zipped completely" I guess? I have only 122 tracks, but Dave has 425. That ain't good.

What needs to be packed, is only a single folder (for example "Phantom"). Number of files inside the folder is irrelevant.

Having so many files there makes this content vulnerable to be renamed / modified / deleted easily for an unexperienced user which could corrupt the game. Again, a single-file system would prevent this situation completely.

This is what we thought at first. But funny enough, it's exactly the opposite. Let's see,
- Deleting, renaming, modifying a single file would only reset the progress for that specific track. A single file containing the entire progress is what makes it vulnerable to corruption.

- Even when using a single big file, that file needs to be fully loaded and fully saved, head to tail, every time - even when the progress to save belongs to a one track only.

- Only the default game progress (stock tracks and stunt arena) are loaded at game start. A specific user track progress is loaded only when actually needed. This greatly speeds up game with as much as 500 tracks.

- If there is some kind of problem saving progress, only one file is affected. Imagine the entire progress of a thousand tracks in a single file getting screwed when saving one user track progress.

- Settings being in a separate .ini file can be modified easily (for advanced users).

- If user needs to uninstalls tracks, it's easy to manage it's specific progress. In a single file, there is just no way to prevent garbage accumulation (progress for tracks that just don't exist).

About the auto-formatting of profile names, remember that the purpose of a Profiles menu is to let multiple users interact. I'd say it's better to keep the menu clean this way. If you need an all-caps abbreviation, leave space between each letter (such as G W C). You could also just use your real name.

About separating Profile name and Player name, it is to allow changing the in-game name at any time. A profile, once created, cannot be renamed for security reasons (ah, I'm bored to go into details right now..).

No sound In-Game: @Kenny - Are you sure the music started playing immediately after you inserted the CD? That's impossible, as both the sound and music details are refreshed only when (1) going back from the Audio Settings, or (2) loading / restarting a track. Anyway, the sound system is handled by a very outdated version of an external tool, Miles. Overwritting the mss32.dll with a newer version (from some other game) may work (although it may produce side-effects). Other than trying that workaround, you're pretty much struck with any sound problems till we update to DirectSound.. and that will happen only when we decided to update the entire multimedia set.

Car Transmission Type:

ThomasMink wrote:Not sure if this means anything or not, but it seems like transmission type is no longer 'calculated in game anyway' with this latest release.. at least for the frontend display.

We are only loading the needed data of all cars at game start (previously the entire contents of the parameter file was loaded right at the game start). So we don't have the wheel data available anymore and cannot calculate transmission. It's upto the car author to set it correctly.

Championship Points Bug: @Skarma - Well, I tried but failed to reproduce this one. I'll fix it when I manage to get it here. Meanwhile, do you remember a few details..
- Which release did you get this in?
- Was it the first race since game start?
- If you had played anything else before this championship, do you remember if the Number of Cars was set above 8?

Skarma wrote:Also, when joining a lobby ingame, alot of the time half the players just disappear and I'm unable to race.

This would be a connection problem, so there's nothing we can do. But I think it's a problem between you and host, so you might be able to prevent it by joining a different host.

Car folder length limit:

joelcool51 wrote:I play the new update and I noticed that the Halogaland car `: Extreme Bizzarreries dont load the param end send error of loading the parameters and i have some repaint that dont load the color of them. Do you have idea about that.

Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you guys shortened the maximum length allowed for names for car folders. In previous versions, car folders like "the_jesters_ride" would read in Re-Volt with no issues. But in the new version, I get an error with that same car that says "Can't load cars/the_jesters_rid/Parameters.txt". Then Re-Volt crashes...

The car folder name length was reduced from 260 to 16 characters, just like the track folders. This is because in the future, we plan to identify a car by it's folder name instead of the actual car's name like it is now. It's mainly important for Skins and Variants support, and also to send the folder name in online sessions.

@Dave: But the crash is fixed now.

Invisible User Cars:

miromiro wrote:Some cars have a problem loading 32bit textures, and that's why they keep on showing transparent. Is there a way to fix this? I know I've been suggested somewhere in this topic about how to fix it but it doesn't seem to work. Any help?

A 32-bit texture should have alpha transparency data. But some 32-bit textures have zeroes where the alpha data should be, so this is taken to be fully transparent. Resave it in 24-bit format to fix these textures.

Car Sunk Underground:

stoney1918 wrote:yay, a new bug! Ok, on some custom cars when they appear in the frontend or in a race, their main bodies are too low, i was able to fix one of the cars by setting the second value under body offset to -8, I don't understand why only some cars do it but, anyway here's a screen shot of it:

I checked the same car, it was just fine. No idea why you get it. Latest build?

Mysterious Game Crashes:

kajeuter wrote:Not a keeper for me. Too much game crashes. Ill stick up with 825.

We believe these crashes to be caused under the influence of a Martian spaceship that has recently landed in your area. Please report to the local authorities as quickly as possible.

Multi-Player Name Height:

Cosmo_Kramer wrote:all i can say is im so worried about new driver letters,they are standing too high,couldnt fall a sleep cause of those letters,so deconcentrating,they are making me nevous!hope you will change it back.

Ya, it's fixed now. It only happened in Arcade mode, not Simulation.. and we only checked it in Sim before releasing.

And Then The Rest:

- No sound after getting an error message will be fixed soon.

Kenny wrote:I found a new bug (although I'm not sure if it was already in previous versions):
collecting all 20 stars in stunt arena (or is it neighbourhoods arena? dont remember that name...) doenst unlock clockwork carnage.
also the stars you already collected arent saved that means you have to collect all of them again once you go back into main menu.

I still haven't checked this, but soon we will..

Kenny wrote:and another thing I noticed: on toytanic 2 one texture seems missing (I have seen it in other videos, I wonder why no one spotted that yet?) which is in toytanic definitely there, screenshot:
also just before that area of the track is a light placed near the wall. for some reason that light appears now (after the last update) red instead of white, if you want more info about that I can upload a comparison picture.

White untextured part already existed in old versions - it's a problem with the track's files. But we will check the red light bug soon.

Skarma wrote:Something else I noticed that is kind've odd. There are times when cars bunch up together like at the very start of a race and in very narrow sections of a track. The cars dont seem to even touch each other when they "touch" each other... if that makes any sense? (Pick a track with long straights and choose a slow car and try to get a faster car to push from behind then you'll see what I'm talking about.)

Cosmo_Kramer wrote:yea i noticed that too,cars are not touching each other but still u bump into other car

gdfsgdfg wrote:Don't ask me what happened but everyone's collision is "bigger" than supposed to be. Try getting past someone you can't.

Pyves wrote:Yeah, cars are definitely bigger than they should as we can see in gdfsgdfg's video! Just tested on Botanical garden!

This is the same collision bug Strix reported, it's now fixed.

Cosmo_Kramer wrote:since driving this patch i noticed that bomb transferd every time,is that something u worked on or coincidence

Also caused by the same collision bug.

@MythicMonkey:

I know how it is, some new guy shows up and starts throwing around his opinions. For my part let me say that my only interest lies in helping to make Re-Volt into an even better game than it already is.

All feedback is welcome, feel free to throw around your opinions.. and glad to know we share a common goal.

During the course of this journey I have read posts dating back approx. 7 years, I think. Though it was not really my intent, the result was that I almost came to know a number of you who have been with this game from the beginning.

Hmm, I wonder what kind of embarrassing posts of mine you managed to find..

I'm fairly decent with graphics and modeling, and I've gotten pretty good at tweaking parameters so if there is a need then perhaps I can pitch in.

Currently all we're doing is updating the executable, but well, we have no idea how things will change in the future. The whole development period so far could be comparable to the game's AI: focus a few meters ahead of you and just keep going. We'll remember to let you know if we need anything.


Oh yeah, and thanks for the translations, guys.

Pyves wrote:Merry Christmas to all of you!

Merry Merry.

Thank you for such a comprehensive reply.

As for the AI, i won't comment at all as it is a WIP.

Huki wrote: - wait till the car is facing the correct direction again.
- Check if the car is still moving fastly sidewise.
- If so, reduce speed and steer a bit to the opposing direction till the sidewise movement comes to a halt.

Will be waiting for this to be implemented.

Btw, sorry for such a suggestion at this time but how about adding a skins support in the future.
I mean if re-volt bring support for skins, then the repainter needs to only make a bmp and don't need to copy the whole folder and make a new car.
For example, i create a repaint of Dust Mite, and add it to a Skins folder present in the "mite" folder. In the game now i can switch between the Skins of Dust Mite.

Now i know that this is not much needed but if someone repaints a high poly car, what he/she do is that copy the whole car folder and make a new bmp for it. As you know, high poly cars are large in size, making a copy of it, would take a good amount of disk space. (I know most of you here have vast HDDs)

Moreover i am making cars which have 3-4 skins and have gigantic bmps. I put the Skins in a "Skins" folder inside the car folder but i don't think no one ever bothers to give those skins a try.

Thanks!

Okay, Christmas is a busy time, so it took me a while to get to actually answer to your long reply, Huki.

Basically: I came, I saw, I agreed. Your arguments are all valid, so you obviously know what you’re doing. That kills all my worries. And I accept the “humble-treatment” that I received from you. I’m an arguer type, I admit, and not always right. But in arguments the truth is born, they say.

Bottom line – I’m all “go” with your work at AI, and I have no hard feelings. Meanwhile, I’m going to concentrate on the old AI. Merry Christmas to you, and to all others here <smiles>

To huki:

To answer your question: "Can you say why you (and other track makers) had chosen to included these obstacles
within the node path, and also place the lines cutting so close to the corner?
Was there a specific reason?"

The node path has no affect on the path the AI cars take. The AI cars are controled by the main racing line
(or the pink overtaking line. In over 500 hours of adjusting the AI on tracks I have never seen the AI Walls
do anything, certainly not affect the way the AI cars drive.
There is no reason not to put solid objects in the road if the racing line goes around them.
The fact that the solid objects are somewhere between the red and green nodes means nothing.
The reason the racing line is so close to the corners is to make the AI cars take the corners faster.
Having the racing line on the stock tracks go wider and slower around corners is to slow the AI down so
a ten year old can beat the game.

After trying to adjust the AI on my new track I found I could not stop the AI cars from
cutting corners to close and crashing in the corner walls, making them go wider or slowing
them down did not work.
I would say the problem is Adaptive look-ahead distance.
If the AI is looking ahead to the racing line on the other side
of the corner and driving towards it it will crash into the corner.
- Bezier smoothed racing line. I have no idea what this is, but I don't like it.
- Better correction and recovery. I don't know what this is, but the AI cars
were never good at recovering from a crash.

I have not read all this thread so I am not sure why you started to mess
around with the orignal AI engine. What was wrong with it? You can't make
the AI better on the stock track because the track AI was adjusted to be bad.
On most custom tracks the AI is ruined by the slightest change in the AI engine.

Huki @ Dec 25 2011, 07:15 AM wrote: Behold the largest post in Re-Volt history...

Arcade Collision bug: Fixed now. For info, There was always a slight imperfection with collisions in Arcade or lesser modes though, even in old versions (this is most noticeable with Phat Slug). This is normal.

AI cutting corners: Will be fixed in the next release, as long as "walls" are placed properly. Walls are the green and red rectangles that are placed in AI Nodes edit mode using the 7 and 8 keys. The picture below shows the use of walls.

Haha now I can't wait for the next release. Since the only thing stopping me from installing this one will be fixed. And the Arcade Collision fix is going to make it even more fun.

Okay, it's time to show some interest to the AI since it's also important for me. Huki, one thing you should know that you have to change the cars' AI and not the track's. And with that I don't mean that parameters, but the way they work. You most probably knew that but I've still told you anyway.

The thing about the AI cutting corners was a sucky bug, good to know you've been able to fix it. A good way to improve the AI would be to make the AI cars calculate the distance between the AI margins, usually AI margins are supposed to show that there's an obstacle after them. This feature does already appear in the original version of the game, when the AI nodes are very thin the AI cars tend to slow down, although there is not slow down property. Here's a picture of Human's Freestoyle 2 which I hope will help you understand what I'm trying to say.



Now, the reason why I'm asking for such an improvement is because of the different AI Nodes created by all type of track makers. There are a lot of people who have created poor AI for their tracks in the past and also there are some in the present. There are quite some tracks where the racing path is VERY limited, reason why track makers put thin nodes. Now, cars tend to accelerate at their max. when it comes to normal Racing Line property, but I've been thinking about a feature to help them slow down depending on the wideness of the AI Node.

About this subject, I've got some more things to point out. I've seen several topics on ORP about the cars going out of the AI Node zone, and thus having a hard time recovering, usually because of explosion and different crashes like such. It's true that you found some kind of way to improve this point, by repositioning the AI cars fast enough to not lose time, but I've been thinking that they still lose a lot of time. Well, I can't say that if the AI cars go out about 1-2m off the AI Nodes zone they immediately get repositioned, but still. So, the thing is that when the AI cars get out of the last passed AI zone they immediately head back to the same AI zone, although it's not required since they're still in the same Track Zone.

The solution would be for the cars to go to the closest AI node. Usually, and I really mean usually, the tracks where the possibility exists for an AI car to go out of the AI node zone there are made recovering nodes, which have been discovered to have something to do with the Wilderness property. That's at least what Urne has discovered some time ago. Using this property, the AI cars know that they have to take that route to get back on the main racing line. But, what if the AI car lands from the crash somewhere between the recovering line and the main racing line? Although it'd be closer to the recovering line, it goes all the way back to the last main racing line last passed AI zone. Would it be possible for the AI cars to feel the closest AI line and to follow it? This doesn't mean that if it's a part of the track where the cars go in two different directions to start following the wrong one only because it's closest, but to also calculate the Track Zone they're into. Do you get what I mean? That would be everything I can think of, and the track I've been thinking of while writing this post was Urne's JungleVolt. I've also got to say that I noticed that the AI cars started to follow the closest line (noticed this while racing Supermarket 2, just before the finish line), but that only happens if it's already driving over it.

Hope you understand at least 3/4 of the post and about my ideas.
PS: Sorry if this subject was already mentioned in this topic, I didn't read it all.

hilaire9 @ Dec 25 2011, 03:39 PM wrote:After trying to adjust the AI on my new track I found I could not stop the AI cars from cutting corners to close and crashing in the corner walls, making them go wider or slowing them down did not work.

hil wrote:I would say the problem is Adaptive look-ahead distance.
If the AI is looking ahead to the racing line on the other side
of the corner and driving towards it it will crash into the corner.

Yes, and from the next release this can be prevented by using walls. Once a wall is found the AI will not look over the other side. Using walls can also avoid crashing into obstacles inside the node path. So I don't see the problem now.

Bezier smoothing etc., etc., will not cause any problem with any existing track. There is no need to worry about them. The only problem was the adaptive look-ahead.. now the problem can be fixed. It's easy to place a wall...

A long look-ahead distance would let the AI take straight paths smoothly (without much steering and adjusting). It would also be able to drift smoothly in sloping paths like the cave in Ghost Town 2.

hil wrote:I have not read all this thread so I am not sure why you started to mess around with the orignal AI engine. What was wrong with it?

The AI cannot take tight turns properly (for example, over the cliff in Toy World 1). Or target the car into narrow paths (for example inbetween the cash counters in Market1). This can't be fixed with better AI nodes. It's a problem with the engine (that can be easily fixed, so why not?).

The original AI driving seems to be designed for open wide environments. It's of no use in Re-Volt world.

@Pranav: I actually had a similar idea like you. because there are so many repaints of the same car model out there I thought "why not make a quick switch method in the car menu so you dont have to go thorugh all the same cars?"
I was thinking that you could use the up/down arrow keys to select different skins/carboxes if they are available for the current selected car so you wouldnt have to search for it.
but its only an idea and up to you guys to decide if you implement it or not

I also had the idea to use the up/down key in the car menu for a big "search car" menu where you either could directly type the carname and as you type the car names get sorted out and you see them on the list or simply list them alphabetically and you can select them.

and another idea I have about the single savegame file: make a export/import option where all your current data collected together and written into a single file where you can restore the information with the import option.
maybe its also not worth the time to implement it (since most people copy the whole ReVolt folder anyway) but again its up to you to decide

Huki wrote:No sound In-Game: @Kenny - Are you sure the music started playing immediately after you inserted the CD? That's impossible, as both the sound and music details are refreshed only when (1) going back from the Audio Settings, or (2) loading / restarting a track.

yes I meant that. I actually inserted the cd while he loaded into the main menu and he took a bit longer than usually (probably because he was reading from the cd) and then he went to main menu with full sound enabled.
I also tried to use the updated .dll (I took the one from jigebrens site) but without success. I still have to try it with my other version from the notebook that has sound, if its still not working I guess I'll have to live with it

So the AI of thousands of custom tracks is turned to crap so the AI cars can
handle a few spot is the stock tracks? The Developers could have laid out the
AI in these difficult spots better, but chose not to. I am not going to repeat why.

hilaire9 wrote:I have not read all this thread so I am not sure why you started to mess around with the orignal AI engine.

miromiro wrote:PS: Sorry if this subject was already mentioned in this topic, I didn't read it all.

At the risk of alienating some people that I don't really want to, I feel compelled to remark upon this. I realize that both of you have been around for a lot longer than me and that this subject is one that is very close to your hearts, leading to some strong opinions. I know that you've made a ton of tracks hilaire, and you don't want to see that work go to waste. Countless hours go into the creation of these and they become much like our children, making us very protective of them and the effort fhat went into their production.

Huki went to a lot of trouble however, in answering the very question that you ask. I believe he laid out this thoughts for the AI revision quite clearly along with the reasons for the decisions that were made. Unless I am mistaken, Huki mentioned that your tracks specifically were set up to work well with the new AI, saying that all your tracks use walls properly. I'm really not looking to make enemies here so I hope you know that I am not trying to be insulting, but don't you think it is perhaps a good idea to read through a conversation before adding to it?

Not only will you often find immediate answers to your questions, it can often keep you from looking less intelligent than I know you are.

(?) I still don't see what's your problem with me after all.

miromiro ~

First let me explain that I meant no offense. I don't have a 'problem' with anyone.

If this was a normal conversation thread I probably wouldn't have said anything at all, so I will attempt to paint you the picture in my head that caused me to place finger to key in this circumstance. What makes this a bit different is the fact that it relates to the development of a piece of software. That's a confusing and difficult enough process on it's own without adding unnecessary trees to the forest, so to speak.

To begin I will say that in any conversation it's just plain polite/a good idea to read what has already been said before adding your own comments. This keeps the original poster from having to repeat himself, and the one making the comments from looking like he/she either doesnt' know what he/she is talking about or that they don't care enough or have enough respect for the one they are conversing with.

By reading the entire conversation you know what ideas have already been proposed or rejected, and the reasons for doing so.

In a nutshell, I guess basically what I'm trying to say is that you are telling someone that you haven't bothered to read anything they have said, but you expect them to listen to everything you have to say...that implies both a lot of arrogance and a lack of respect. You are saying "I don't care what you have to say, but listen to me." Does that make sense?

You have to remember Huki and jigebren aren't getting paid for this. They aren't working for us. I just think that paying them back with at least the amount of respect that it takes to read their words is a worthy effort.

To go further, and to help better explain my point...for example, do you both know and appreciate the time it took Huki to respond to everyone's concerns about the AI in this thread? This is no trivial matter. He took the time to quote and personally respond to everyone in a manner that made it clear he had read every word, and each quote was extracted and placed alongside a response in a logical and well-ordered manner. This act in itself imparts a great amount of respect on Huki's part to all of us.

To sum up again, he doesn't have to respond so diligently to your queries, he doesn't have to politely repeat himself or expound so fully on his goals for the AI. So what I'm saying is that we should respect and appreciate the fact that he does. This starts with reading what he has to say.

To continue Huki's comprehensive post...

Red light bug in Ship2:

Kenny wrote:just before that area of the track is a light placed near the wall. for some reason that light appears now (after the last update) red instead of white

In fact it was not a v1.2 bug but an issue in the ship2 world file, which contains flawed vertex normals for some polygons. I can't tell exactly why it worked with v1207 but I guess it's just because it's more fault tolerant than v1.2 (which is not a good thing BTW as it may silently hides bugs like this one). Anyway, v1.2 will take care of this case now.

hilaire9 @ Dec 25 2011, 11:09 AM wrote:- Bezier smoothed racing line. I have no idea what this is, but I don't like it.

Ok, I know reading the whole thread would take quite some time, but it has been explained no so long ago. You can have a look, then you'll have a valid reason to like it or not.

I would like to add one more thought to this subject before hopefully putting it to rest and moving on to the far more important topic of Re-Volt 1.2.

miromiro ~
Because I know that you perceive my words to be far more hurtful than they were meant to be, let me say the following. If there is one thing that I don't want to do to you or anyone else, it would be to dampen your enjoyment of this fine game or to quell your desire to give feedback.

I said before that I felt like I already knew some of you. Well, you are another of those that I have come to know...and like. What exactly do I like about you? Out of all the people who posted cars, levels, or comments about either...you are the single person who stood out as having the best attitude, the most positive outlook about life in general, and the most eager to just show up and have fun.

For me, you are like Japanese anime. And for me, while there might be an exception or two, I generally prefer the English subs with Japanese vocals because they seem to be far better at projecting their emotions through the use of their voice acting talents alone. That's what I get from you...I can feel your enthusiasm right through my screen. Your words alone have the power to convey the bright spark that is your personality. I sometimes have to read your posts several times to ascertain their true meaning due to a slight language barrier, but that is part of their unique charm.

I can actually see your inner smile...and that gives me one of my own. That quality is more rare than you might think and it's one that you should hold onto and value highly. I would hate to think I had done anything to tarnish it's brilliant shine. I stand by the truth of my words above, but you certainly shouldn't take it personally or let it get you down in any way.

hilaire9 ~
I recognize and respect your place within the community. I hope you have not taken my words too harshly, either. You have been a great asset to everyone and I hope that you don't interpret my words as any kind of disrespect.

Peace and good racing, my friends.

Would it be safe to assume that all future 1.2 builds from here on out will use the same format for custom features as the 1215 alpha?

Dave&#045;o&#045;rama @ Dec 28 2011, 01:39 AM wrote: Would it be safe to assume that all future 1.2 builds from here on out will use the same format for custom features as the 1215 alpha?

Yes, the format for custom features will remain the same.

Huki @ Dec 25 2011, 06:15 AM wrote: Championship Points Bug: @Skarma - Well, I tried but failed to reproduce this one. I'll fix it when I manage to get it here. Meanwhile, do you remember a few details..
- Which release did you get this in?
- Was it the first race since game start?
- If you had played anything else before this championship, do you remember if the Number of Cars was set above 8?

This was in the current release. I'm not certain but it might've been the first race since I started that session as my intention was to unlock all the cars again. My no of cars is always set to 12.

What about Lego tracks made using only the track editor, will the AI work properly there?

Request and Bug Report of the day:


The Bug: When late joining a room and spectating someone it says Waiting For: Player Names

Well after a while the game will instantly crash now that's quite annoying cause once you re-join most likely host has already changed the map and you gotta spectate resulting in crashing again.

The Request:

Make a way to have Custom Difficulty on Tracks for ex.
http://i.imgur.com/HARPa.png

Some news related to track AI: we were trying to detect corners and bends automatically so it won't be necessary to update all existing tracks with walls. It's already working quite well - both to avoid corner cutting and to avoid obstacles in the node path. It is still recommended to utilize walls for future tracks, but it looks like this is no longer a mandatory requirement.

Elven wrote:What about Lego tracks made using only the track editor, will the AI work properly there?

All tracks should work properly once we're done.

@miromiro:

the thing is that when the AI cars get out of the last passed AI node they immediately head back to the same AI node

Hmm, not really. The AI looks a certain range ahead from the last passed node and tries to reach there. This is good enough in any case, as the car couldn't have traveled a long distance out of nodes.

Although it'd be closer to the recovering line, it goes all the way back to the main racing line last passed AI node. Would it be possible for the AI cars to feel the closest AI node and to follow it?

Don't think this is possible, and it's not needed anyway for the above reason. You're talking about car being far away from the last passed node. This should never be let to happen.

And a note about Wilderness property: the AI will never "pick" this kind of line. Urne is right, it serves as a backup recovery line. But the AI has to manually fall into this line, only then it will continue to follow it.

---

@Pranav: In fact we had already started thinking about skins and variant support. Skins are simple repaints, and Variants have more advanced modifications - for example Evil Weasel could be considered a Variant of RC Bandit. I can't say when you'll see this feature, but it will probably the next thing we should consider after AI.

gdfsgdfg wrote:When late joining a room and spectating someone it says Waiting For: Player Names. Well after a while the game will instantly crash.

This kind of bug is going to be hard to find and fix since it affects only some users. Does it crash only when joining late? What about using the Spectate option in the middle of a session?

Huki, I'm not sure what you mean by 'obstacles in the node path'.
If you mean the space between the red and green nodes solid things
will not cause a problem. The AI cars should follow the Racing Line
not the nodes. If the advanced look-ahead is looking for nodes that
will always be a problem.

Huki wrote:@Pranav: In fact we had already started thinking about skins and variant support. Skins are simple repaints, and Variants have more advanced modifications - for example Evil Weasel could be considered a Variant of RC Bandit. I can't say when you'll see this feature, but it will probably the next thing we should consider after AI.

Wow, its already planned, that's nice to know. Thanks.

I will be waiting for this feature but no hurries, the AI is much more important.

Pranav @ Dec 30 2011, 06:46 AM wrote:

Huki wrote:@Pranav: In fact we had already started thinking about skins and variant support. Skins are simple repaints, and Variants have more advanced modifications - for example Evil Weasel could be considered a Variant of RC Bandit. I can't say when you'll see this feature, but it will probably the next thing we should consider after AI.

Wow, its already planned, that's nice to know. Thanks.

I will be waiting for this feature but no hurries, the AI is much more important.

I believe me and huki once discussed this many blue moons ago and also considered the option of being able to see everyone's custom paintjobs in multiplayer. Some of us have custom Toyeca paints so instead of whatever you're Toyeca BMP is, you would see the other racer's instead. I think huki said this could be achieved by having the game send the BMP over to your pc as a temporary .PNG (I think?) file and will delete itself when you've finished racing.

Huki @ Dec 30 2011, 05:20 AM wrote:

gdfsgdfg wrote:When late joining a room and spectating someone it says Waiting For: Player Names. Well after a while the game will instantly crash.

This kind of bug is going to be hard to find and fix since it affects only some users. Does it crash only when joining late? What about using the Spectate option in the middle of a session?

I think the game doesn't crash when using the spectate option.

A skin choice option would definitely help me, I have a couple of different color versions of some cars.


Another thing that would be useful is some sort of search engine in Car Selection. Or at least, if possible, press "D" to move to the first car with "D" as first letter in its name.

ElvenAvenger @ Dec 30 2011, 09:03 AM wrote: Another thing that would be useful is some sort of search engine in Car Selection. Or at least, if possible, press "D" to move to the first car with "D" as first letter in its name.

This would not be unwelcome for tracks as well

Since this was a feature of Phoenix R3, I bet something similar will appear in 1.2 too. Afterall..

1.2 website @ Short-term Plans wrote: [...] Features of Phoenix R3 will also eventually make its way into the new Re-Volt update. [...]

Source: http://rv12.zackattackgames.com/todo.php

I think it was clear that improved searching would be included sooner or later in the patch or?

Anyway I think this feature is pretty important so having it in the next update would be very neat

Still the question remains for me: how do we want to search for track/cars?
- one could simply make a big list of all tracks/cars there are sorted alphabetically or by their difficulty and we could go through the pages but this is imho not a good solution since we would have the same problem again if we have many many tracks/cars, it would take too long to get to the result.

- another solution would be the "instant search". we have a search bar and as we type the name of the track/car the results get listed under the search bar (again listed aplhabetically ir by their difficulty). this would probably require some more work but is more efficient.

of course all these searching requires the user to know the name of the track/car. I dont know how you guys handle it but I almost always remember the track/car by their picture/carbox (if they have one) and not by their name.
maybe we could also think of a method that includes something "visual"? if not then its also no big tragedy but it would probably help some users very much.
If the devs already made some plans about it then feel free to share them with us


and here a suggestion to a completely different matter - the organization of the threads :
I think it would be much better here if we have one thread (for example) called "Development & Releases" where you only post the new updates with the changelogs (user comments are not allowed there).
Then make a new thread for every patch that gets released where people can discuss the (new) bugs of the patch and maybe also suggestions for next versions.
You could also make a seperate thread for the suggestions but as you can see most people post here in this "Development" Thread and therefore it gets a little bit difficult to orientate oneself.

Hi Zipperrulez, I am CEO of Re-Volt for Turkey. Re-Volt Turkish translations you want to send. Will you accept?


Will you do the original cars, special carbox system, thus making the game mode will be more beautiful. I want to warn Turkish RVZT site. May I?

Special Carbox System?

And with original cars you mean the dreamcast one's right?

Dreamcast version of the tried, but at least understand what I mean. I open a little more. AMW folder to get the sample.

Ine parameter.txt the folder;
TCARBOX "cars&#092;AMW&#092;carbox.bmp" example. Carbox takes the form of 250x250, but the game does not read u carbox added. This problem is resolved mode is a bit easier to do.

Good Day
rvtr Admin

Rvtr Admin? Who are you?

miro -> clicky for the turkish forum rvtr is admin of