Our ReVolt Pub

Hey all
2 new tracks at rvlz.
Get them!

Nice to see an active track maker over here!
I noticed that you like to do nature tracks.
But you are, sadly, very bad at doing AI.
I could give you a hand of help, just ask .
Good luck with your next tracks!

Tracks have been sent to
RVZT.

I nominate Miro for the worst comment ever award.

Thanks Zach!

zagames @ Jan 24 2010, 05:06 AM wrote: I nominate Miro for the worst comment ever award.

Many thanks!

zagames @ Jan 24 2010, 05:06 AM wrote: I nominate Miro for the worst comment ever award. 

I'd definately vote for that one, the AI is just fine, i have my serious doubts that you can make it better. Great track ricky, it'd be nice with some new textures, but keep em comming

miromiro @ Jan 23 2010, 10:44 PM wrote:...
But you are, sadly, very bad at doing AI.
I could give you a hand of help, just ask ...

YOU! do AI?

Wait.... let me catch my breath...

Sorry Ricky, that I did not get your emails sooner, been busy away from my PC.

Hi Manmountain
That's ok I figured you were working.
Thou it would have been better a.i. if you
had dun it.
The grass is kinda tricky for a.i.
You see I put more hard surfaces
on the first one the day one.
Good to here from you.
We will have to work on somthing
soon.
Talk 2 U later

Manmountain @ Jan 24 2010, 06:05 PM wrote:

miromiro @ Jan 23 2010, 10:44 PM wrote:...
But you are, sadly, very bad at doing AI.
I could give you a hand of help, just ask ...

YOU! do AI?

Said the AI mountain.
Yes dude. I do AI.
At least I try. And I can say that I helped a lot of guys doing AI.
I mean AI Nodes not AI Cars.
So, I've seen all your AI Nodes... and yes, they're great.
But nobody can say that he is the guru of something.
Not even the "AI Guru" .

IMO a Guru is a self proclaimed master that encourages appreciative followers who spread the stories of his deeds.

Also, it helps if you know what your talking about.

Yes sure...
I know what I'm talking about. I have a good English... not the best but other can at least understand it. However...
You are not a Guru.
Only God is a Guru of everything.
No one is Guru for anything.
Anyway, long time I've seen in you a rival for me.
Come some time on RVHouse, maybe today and let's talk a little.

LOL
You seem to want to be hostile, why is this ?

You have not fully understood my statement :

IMO a Guru is a self proclaimed master that encourages appreciative followers who spread the stories of his deeds.

In otherwords, he is a probable nobody who knows very little but exaggerated stories of his achievements spread by others make him sound like a God.

This is what I beleive about any Guru.

Just for the record, in my place of work I am a self proclaimed God, as I know everything about anything to do with my Job. No one else can believe I know as much as I do.

So, as a God I feel that you are not worthy of removing the muck off the shoes of servents of my rivals.
Away with you, Insect!

If you know, do!
Anyway, if you aren't ready to help everyone with AI, I could give you a hand of help.
Yes, I know a lot too but no one believe this because I don't know how to show.
Anyway, I'm just at the beginning, and after much working with AI, I could be like you.
I don't have so much support from my "friends" as you do, but I will try to make all myself.
And I'm a fan of you, but don't go too far. I still want to be your friend, even if you banned me, added my stupid member title and downgraded me. However...

Friends! me ?... HA!!

I have very few friends, and to be honest, that's what I have become acustom to.

No one is aware of your AI work as of yet, what exactly do you know ?

I have altered your member title as requested.

Come on, you have a lot of friends!
I can't believe how rude you can be.
To be true I know a lot about AI, I always spend 1/4 of my work at a track by doing AI.
About my member title seems like you still want to show to the other that I'm stupid.
Okay, do what you want, I don't really want to care anymore of your actions because you come sometime at 2 months and change my account and make it worse. Don't worry, you won't be attacked by other because of this. But being rude with someone only for fun it's very rude. Why don't you try to help the other to understand the AI too.
There, out of this pub are a lot of people that want a teacher to teach them to do AI. As an "AI Guru" you should do that. But noo... you have to change my title and to have an unfriendly behavior with me. You are not nice. And who told you that I don't have any aware for my AI? Greetings. At least I have a little conversation with you. That's what I was long time waiting for.

Foolishly mischievous most certainly, Rude! never.

Your problem is that you are young and think that actions are a personal aggressive act. Well your wrong, and I find your rants rather rude.

You need to socialise with other real people and you may learn that a lot of friends will pull your leg and make fun of you just for the laughs, not as an act of war.

Please don't flame here anymore, if you can not see the humour then move on.
Your posts receive a lot of attention from others not just from me.

And you seriously wonder why I tease ? grow up, please.

Manmountain @ Jan 24 2010, 03:18 PM wrote: And you seriously wonder why I tease ? grow up, please.

I second that notion

Manmountain @ Jan 24 2010, 10:18 PM wrote: Foolishly mischievous most certainly, Rude! never.

Your problem is that you are young and think that actions are a personal aggressive act. Well your wrong, and I find your rants rather rude.

You need to socialise with other real people and you may learn that a lot of friends will pull your leg and make fun of you just for the laughs, not as an act of war.

Please don't flame here anymore, if you can not see the humour then move on.
Your posts receive a lot of attention from others not just from me.

And you seriously wonder why I tease ? grow up, please.

That's "line of the year" material.

1. You told someone off after being gone for ages. That's funny.
2. You rhymed.
3. You're Manmountain, the "AI Guru".

MM wrote:Your problem is that you are young and think that actions are a personal aggressive act. Well your wrong, and I find your rants rather rude.

Déja Vue

TMAM wrote: dont take the internet all that seriously, just make sure you dont fry your pan instead of
the fries at the Re-Volt Pub if you catch my drift.

Adam wrote: That's "line of the year" material.

1. You told someone off after being gone for ages. That's funny.
2. You rhymed.
3. You're Manmountain, the "AI Guru".

I couldn't agree more =)

miro, you are a good Ai nodes editor, but as you said, you're not expert as MM, and neither MM is *too* professional expert on them.

Ai nodes are very tricky, the racing line doesn't mean what it seams, the dead average needs more ai nodes and more CPU calculs = slowing on the car itself.

however, you (+me) should always respect MM as being the most professional AI nodes linker on this scene


_


Good luck on your upcoming tracks, they are superb (the last one B-) )

Someday someone should hold an AI-creation challenge so we can see who really creates the best AI. Although I imagine the type of cars being designed for will make a big difference in that department, as each kind of car has its own driving quirks that the AI nodes have to compensate for.

In my mind, I know a few tricks that Manmountain doesn't. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if diehard track markers like hilaire are much better than they make a fuss about.

Aeon,

I've always been interested in cpu car times and your idea of an AI challenge apeals to me. It could be arranged quite easily - each challenger creates a .fan file for a nominated track, which is available for download by anyone interested and the times obtained for the cpu cars posted on a suitable thread at the pub.

Of course, each race would have to be tha same length and involve the same cpu cars, and, I would suggest, the same driven car, as it seems that the performance of this affects the overall performance of the cpu cars.

If anyone is interested, I'll make suggestions for the actual challenge.

Geoff

When this happens, I will be glad to create a track without AI Nodes. That way there is no pre-existing file to cheat off of.

Hilaire9 does the best AI. Then Manmountain.
I respect Manmountain but he's too strict .

miromiro @ Jan 28 2010, 11:02 AM wrote: Hilaire9 does the best AI. Then Manmountain.
I respect Manmountain but he's too strict .

That is your opinion miro. I suggest a contest so we can have some kind of evidence to back up any such claims, not just opinions. In fact, if it works out well, perhaps some regularly scheduled AI challenges could be fun.

Just as long as there's no rush to finish the AI. I don't have enough motivation to do rush work for this game.

If there were regular challenges, perhaps we could pick up some older classic tracks with notoriously bad AI and fix them up.

For challenge outlines, should be:
1. Fairly short tracks, because making really long AIs isn't fun.
2. Very long races, because that's when average times start to count.

Also if there's some way to rig the race so the player car can do doughnuts and win the race in 10 seconds or something, so it can get out of the way while the other cars race, that would be great. Don't know if you can do that though.

Thank you Miro and Manmountain for making my day

You are welcome .

Aeon @ Jan 30 2010, 02:42 AM wrote: ... perhaps we could pick up some older classic tracks with notoriously bad AI and fix them up.

Also if there's some way to rig the race so the player car can do doughnuts and win the race in 10 seconds or something, so it can get out of the way while the other cars race, that would be great. Don't know if you can do that though.

Sounds like a starting plan.

Maybe not doughnuts but rather small loops most deffinately.
You would just need an alternate smaller trackzone loop to match a smaller AI loop.

I dont claim to be perfect, a master or the best track AI creator.
As mentioned, the track AI will only be optimally taken advantage of by specific AI.
Not all tracks can be easily optimesed for all cars, too many individual variables.
That is why I create specific car AI to suit different track types, but that doesn't always work.

Here are a few basic tips:
The goal is to achieve and maintain the AI cars maximum possible speed around the whole track,
The fastest line is not always the shortest route,
Slow down in a straight line rather than on a curve.

I proposed the question many moons ago on 'ReVolt Downloads' "would the increase in number of AI nodes make the overall race slower" as KDL mentioned, the more CPU calculations undertaken would increase the CPU usage.
That said, with todays CPU's power and additional video memory the effects of that statement would be minuscule.

Dont forget that AI nodes are the reopsitioning points, so care at certain track points needs to be taken to give the AI cars the right positioning point to tacle the up coming track event.

Aeon @ Jan 30 2010, 02:42 AM wrote: Also if there's some way to rig the race so the player car can do doughnuts and win the race in 10 seconds or something, so it can get out of the way while the other cars race, that would be great. Don't know if you can do that though.

ai challenge seems to be a good idea guys,
just an addition, you dont have to finish the race to see the ai result, just pull over at the start and make a note when the cars drive over the finish line and their time is being displayed one by one on the screen. if its a long race to get average results, they wont be close to each other, so its not difficult to catch the time results on screen.