Our ReVolt Pub

i woke up the other day, switched pc on, launched revolt and realized that the frame rate on my new track that is being made has dropped dramatically to roughly fifty percent of what it was before. i dont think i did anything with the files. even on a high fps area, where im facing to a big nothing, where there are no poligons, just a few that are right in front of the car, fps is 30 and it was 75 before. no change on the stock tracks. i reinstalled revolt to clear its registry entries, i double checked the vizibox file in the folder, didnt see any strange. i noticed that in editing mode when i tried to check the viziboxes, it became very hard to rotate the view with the mouse, select and modify boxes, because it was so slow, that it missed mouse clicks and keyboard strokes. it was much smoother before. i reexported the max file to ascii and converted it again to .w and .ncp, didnt help.
i remember myself having similar problem in the past which got solved somehow, cant remember how, sort of by itself.
any idea folks?

is it only that one track or all tracks?

its one particular track.

I've has a similar problem in Vizibox edit mode caused by
the graphical nature of the edit mode: displaying a whole
lot of boxes and cubes. I don't think that causes the bad FPS in
the game, but you could rename the .viz file out of the game
as a test. Also, turning off Big Brothers and selecting a single
box or cube might help in the edit mode.

What is the total polygon count of the mesh?
What are the sizes of the .w and .ncp files?
Certain Objects (spark generators if used too many times, etc.)
can kill the FPS. Test by renaming the .fob file out.

Human, instance mode on that track has a bizarre FSP drop. Is that where you noticed it?

Maibe (if you have v1.10) you need to download Re-volt v1.10...
But if you have Windows™ Vista™ or Windows™ 7 than that won't help...
Click HERE (click on) to download Re-volt v1.00...
I really don't know does it will help.
Maibe Frame Rate is smaller because closing Re-volt v1.10 with Alt+F4 it stays at Processes (Task Manager), but Re-volt v1.00 closes (with Alt+F4) totally everywhere (at Processes too).
Maibe this can help you...

thanks guys,

krisss, i never use alt+f4 and i have 1.1 version and windows xp, i dont think versions or op systems have anything to do with the problem.

zach, its not only instance mode, its all the modes, its almost impossible to edit in vizibox mode, because like hil says everything is displayed and i have a framerate of 1-2 or something like that. (i actually have one frame in 2-3 seconds, but that sounds really weird so i just wrote 1-2 fps, lol)

hil, how to test the files? not sure what you mean by saying "rename the .viz file out of the game as a test" and "Test by renaming the .fob file out."? file sizes: .w file 2,35 mb .ncp file 1.91 mb. there are not many objects installed, some planets replaced with custom models, sky, pickups. i dont know how many poligons are there, im gonna check it, but

listen guys, the problem is not the low fps, the problem is that the frame rate has changed. if it was low before i wouldnt expect anything else, the problem is that it was 35-75 before and now it is 19-45. i didnt notice any change on stox, the effect seems to be appearing only on this custom. if it was all the trax, i would probably update the video driver (i might do it anyway) and reinstall revolt (did it on day before yesterday), but its just this one custom.

What hil meant was that you should use the rule-out method to discover if this has something to do with any of the data files inside your track's folder. For example start out with the .fob or the .viz file.

if i take .viz out from the track folder, the frame rate will be a minus value
i can certainly take .fob file out, but since both the .viz and .fob file have effect on the frame rate, i cannot judge if they were healthy or not, since the frame rate will surely drop when taking .viz file out and surely rise when taking .fob file out anyway.

Human, those custom models add to the total polygon count.
Are you sure they are not too high poly?

Your Sakura track has 45,000 polies and runs well, but it has
a short draw distance and is well viziboxed.

Anything around 50,000 polies is taking Revolt to the limit, I think.
I would be afraid to try it.
My last track has 6,000 polies in the .w file.

JungleVolt is 11k .ncp and around 55k .w (triangles). Doesn't lack here at all, but I don't know about your cpu?

hil,
im just checking poligon count, it is 28k, not that many.

but listen guys, its not the low fps that is a problem!

the problem is this: fps was an average 50 on tuesday and it was an average 25 on wednesday.

im sure theres a glitch somewhere. there are places on the track where i can stop the car with its nose facing the neverending space, where there are no poligons, no objects, only space dust and the fps is 40 while on any parts of any stock is more than that, meaning that my pc is fundamentally capable.

Why not send the track again to me. As it is set up now on your PC. That way I can check it out.

Space dust?

hilaire9 @ Oct 31 2009, 10:00 PM wrote:Space dust?

just a phrase hil theres nothing there what i meant was, if there are no polis in front of you, you really should get the highest fps.

thanks zach, you have the same version in that zip file, but ill send it just in case im not aware of some change.

Anti-Alias?

well, i think instead of trying to find that glitch, i will concentrate on improving what i have. (because it doesnt make any sense and would be very hard to find out i think) i had a closer look on the fob file, when i removed it temporarily like hil said, fps increased by a good 30 percent, which probably means that the custom models have a bit too high poli count. however still doesnt explain why did i have 30 fps on a part of the track where all the custom objects were out of view, behind the car. do they still have an effect on the fps even if they are completely out of view?
i think im gonna recreate the custom models, or reduce the polis to make them more easier to take to for the game.
i also reduced farclip (it was set to infinity for easier editing), but didnt have much effect, the viziboxes have already done the job i guess.

what is an .ace file?

human @ Nov 1 2009, 05:42 PM wrote: however still doesnt explain why did i have 30 fps on a part of the track where all the custom objects were out of view, behind the car. do they still have an effect on the fps even if they are completely out of view?

I've read somewhere that the Viziboxes doesn't affect the objects in any way, so if they really still do have an effect on the fps if they are out of view that might explain it. But I really don't know.

yes, they dont hide objects, but if something is behind the car (hidden or not by viziboxes), that should not have an effect on fps me thinks.

A quick test would prove that. Backup .viz file and head into nothing on a track like PetroVolt or Helios. If the FPS doesn't change while heading into nothing compared to when Re-Volt did load the .viz file, then your theory is right. (I might test that later myself if you don't got time)

Well, strange problem = basic solutions.

Try to make another track containing the same *.w file.
If it's not what you can see that decrease fps, then it's not a visual problem.
So maybe it's the *.ncp file or the AI that's too heavy (weird for this game, though).

Try to export an older version of your track, check average fps. Then compare files sizes etc.. You should find something.

If you don't... Take a cristal sphere and try to find the problem

Good luck.

Human, I get my monitor refresh rate (75fps) on the track.
Except in certain places it will drop under 60fps.

I looked at the track and noticed that large semi-transparent
plane that is used for the water surface (it also seems to cover the entire
track). So I removed the transparency from all polygons in the track.
I found you seemed to have mapped e.bmp (like a mask) over the wall
and floor textures in many places. Did you do this with semi-transparent
copies of polygons just inside the solid polygons, or some Max thing I
do not understand?

Here's a photo I took with all transparency removed
to show e.bmp superimposed over the regular texture:

I don't know if this is your problem (maybe your video card can not handle
all the transparency in the track)

Can you delete all polygons that have transparency from the mesh as
a test?

urnemanden @ Nov 1 2009, 08:09 PM wrote: A quick test would prove that. Backup .viz file and head into nothing on a track like PetroVolt or Helios. If the FPS doesn't change while heading into nothing compared to when Re-Volt did load the .viz file, then your theory is right. (I might test that later myself if you don't got time)

i jave done it on helios urne, and the frame rate was exactly the same with and without viziboxes behind me.

Killer Wheels @ Nov 1 2009, 11:06 PM wrote: Well, strange problem = basic solutions.

Try to make another track containing the same *.w file.
If it's not what you can see that decrease fps, then it's not a visual problem.
So maybe it's the *.ncp file or the AI that's too heavy (weird for this game, though).

Try to export an older version of your track, check average fps. Then compare files sizes etc.. You should find something.

If you don't... Take a cristal sphere and try to find the problem 

Good luck.

thanks kiwi,
unfortunately i dont have time for all those tests and examinations, i have already noticed that the .fob file has a quite noticeable effect on the fps, so i am altering the fob file at the moment by reducing the poli count of the custom objects and i will see what happens.

hilaire9 @ Nov 2 2009, 12:14 AM wrote:Human,  I get my monitor refresh rate (75fps) on the track.
Except in certain places it will drop under 60fps.

I looked at the track and noticed that large semi-transparent
plane that is used for the water surface (it also seems to cover the entire
track).  So I removed the transparency from all polygons in the track.
I found you seemed to have mapped e.bmp (like a mask) over the wall
and floor textures in many places. Did you do this with semi-transparent
copies of polygons just inside the solid polygons, or some Max thing I
do not understand?

Here's a photo I took with all  transparency removed
to show e.bmp superimposed over the regular texture:
I don't know if this is your problem (maybe your video card can not handle all the transparency in the track)

Can you delete all polygons that have transparency from the mesh as a test?

thanks hil,

60-70 fps average is not bad at all, your computer must be faster than mine. is a good sign as well, many racers wont have difficulties with the fps then.

i have noticed that fob file decreases fps significantly. i get 20-60 fps with the fob file in the folder and 30-85 if i pull it out (85 is the refresh rate of my monitor). i checked the custom models, the ceiling fan (with its shadow) has 340 poligons, that means in the room with 4 fans you can see 1360 extra over the track mesh. that may be a tiny bit too much, what do you think?

the semitransparent layers should be ok i think, my video card displays them correctly and they actually are much less than you would think. i dont know the exact number again, but its something like maybe a hundred or a bit more poligons for the floors for the entire track. plus the walls, which is again a low number, i dont think there is a part on the track where you see more than 50-60 of them in the same time. they are btw simple semitransparent polis put in front of the wall polis with a little offset, not some sort of max trick.
i could remove it for a test with some extra work done on the max file, but i think that should be alright, because its really not many. or do you think tansparency in itself regardless to poli count can cause difficulties?